People who say 'We've got to learn to live with it'

[Mixmeup]

People say this when they mean, 'I think we should ignore Covid, crack on, never mention it again and tough shit to the vulnerable'.

Before anyone asks, yes I absolutely believe we've got to learn to live with it. But my version of 'We've got to learn to live with it' means we've got to find a way to open up society, live our lives and deal with Covid better at the same time. Not just attempt to go back to exactly how everything was before and stick our fingers in our ears. I'm talking about continuing to work on improving treatments, rolling out vaccinations and looking at improving them, funding the NHS much, much better, improving ventilation in schools, working on reducing crowding in schools, encouraging hybrid working - etc etc. Why does 'learning to live with Covid' mean throwing all the restrictions out of the window rather than actually finding ways forward?

We have to in m opinion be very careful about what we allow regarding vaccination. It is a matter of personal choice ultimately in this country as are many other decisions , therefore those who choose not to be vaccinated are entitled to make that choice. They are in my view entitled to be treated as everyone else. If we started insisting other action bar people from using the nhs where will it stop- those who smoke, those who drink, those who are overweight, those who engage in dangerous sports etc.

@twelly

We have to in m opinion be very careful about what we allow regarding vaccination. It is a matter of personal choice ultimately in this country as are many other decisions , therefore those who choose not to be vaccinated are entitled to make that choice. They are in my view entitled to be treated as everyone else. If we started insisting other action bar people from using the nhs where will it stop- those who smoke, those who drink, those who are overweight, those who engage in dangerous sports etc.

But likewise those unvaccinated shouldn't receive special treatment in the workplace and should do the same as vaccinated colleagues - it's their risk in all circumstances.

Of we are living with it, it never ends. That is the definition of living with it People who think we can just go back to how we were before Covid with nothing being different in how we live our lives are living in cloud cuckoo land Well at least for a few years anyway. Eventually things will go back to normal in that Covid won't really be anything we think of except to maybe get a regular vaccine but that needs to be when we are no longer having massive peaks of infections at unpredictable times. Massive peaks of millions even mildly ill at the same but unpredictable times will affect all sorts of things which mean life won't be ' normal'

But on the positive side once you’re forced to learn to live with the risk, you realise how wonderful it is, that for me at least, I can stand in a room full of young people smiling and laughing again

You are having a very different classroom experience to me. Loads of the teenagers I teach are isolating at home. It is horribly disruptive.
I’ll admit I’m nervous about September. The bubbles popping and half the class going home needs to stop. But I wish vaccines were available for the over 12s. Some of the kids I teach have felt really ill with Covid (most have had very mild symptoms though).

@twelly

We have to in m opinion be very careful about what we allow regarding vaccination. It is a matter of personal choice ultimately in this country as are many other decisions , therefore those who choose not to be vaccinated are entitled to make that choice. They are in my view entitled to be treated as everyone else. If we started insisting other action bar people from using the nhs where will it stop- those who smoke, those who drink, those who are overweight, those who engage in dangerous sports etc.

Oh I don't think people can or should be barred from using the NHS for not being vaccinated.

However, we can't do much about other countries refusing to admit our unvaccinated citizens.

I've said this on every one of these threads. My CEV DS is double vaccinated, but even catching a mild form of Covid will kill him. I'm carrying on the same way after the 19th.

How can you know this for sure though? If Covid would mean death for him - surely he cannot venture outside etc in case of catching a cold/flu also?
I agree you should carry on doing what you feel safer doing, but you don't expect others to carry on indefinitely surely?

@bumblingbovine49

Of we are living with it, it never ends. That is the definition of living with it People who think we can just go back to how we were before Covid with nothing being different in how we live our lives are living in cloud cuckoo land Well at least for a few years anyway. Eventually things will go back to normal in that Covid won't really be anything we think of except to maybe get a regular vaccine but that needs to be when we are no longer having massive peaks of infections at unpredictable times. Massive peaks of millions even mildly ill at the same but unpredictable times will affect all sorts of things which mean life won't be ' normal'

But is that worse than lockdowns which also cause massive harm/disruption.

Just where is the "middle ground" where life can continue without entire industries moth balled?

@Mixmeup

I'm talking about continuing to work on improving treatments, rolling out vaccinations and looking at improving them, funding the NHS much, much better, improving ventilation in schools, working on reducing crowding in schools, encouraging hybrid working - etc etc

The problem is many of those things you want, will take years and 100s of billions to implement.
The NHS's under funding cannot be fixed inside a decade, modification of building, again, a decades work.
Improved vaccines and their rollout, a year? two?

Building new and bigger schools? yes of course the tories will do that :( along with all the improvements we both want.

The UK simply isn't in a position to "learn to live with it"

Just where is the "middle ground" where life can continue without entire industries moth balled?

Where we are now?
Current restrictions allow businesses to open.

Ever rising infections will screw the economy as people wont go out and spend.

There can of course be some relaxation, esp on TnT and isolations but we should stay where we are in the main.

Hospitality will be affected but i don't see why most of europe can manage with table service but we can't?

Schools shutting for the summer will help with everything else opening. We have seen a reduction in cases every school holiday despite the government assurances covid stays at the school door and definitely doesn't spread inside the building.

Come September, teachers will be the only people regularly working with large groups of unvaccinated people. I hope the government rolls out the vaccine to U16s soon.

By learning to live with it, I mean a return to mostly normal life but with some adjustments. I think people who have been inside throughout are in for a shock. Most people haven't though.

• first we were frightened but now we are not. Most of us have had the 2 vaccinations and only the younger staff who haven’t.

Society expects us to teach. And if it’s good enough for us to face a classroom of teenagers not wearing masks, then it’s good enough for you.

But on the positive side once you’re forced to learn to live with the risk, you realise how wonderful it is, that for me at least, I can stand in a room full of young people smiling and laughing again. we get to give them that opportunity that they cannot have elsewhere with their friends unless they are socialising at home. The pathetic covid rules we have are like pushing water uphill. If covid was sentient it’d be laughing at us. And yet we continue to scare and pump fear into children and those in social isolation at home, by which I mean the wfh crew and the retired folk. You ought to be more angry about that really.

I do not care if I catch COVID I wouldn’t want to take this summer of freedom and holidays from people (and children are people and just as important).*

I’m a teacher. You are the only teacher I’ve heard of who feels this way.

@jasjas1973 - no, the nightclub industry is still shut completely until 19th.

The wedding industry isn't functioning as you can't dance at weddings or sing.

Theatres having to operate at less than 50% capacity cant afford to keep going much longer (most have only kept going with grants).

Many restaurants are struggling with limiting tables available due to increased space needed between them and cafes /pubs that have always operated with a bar/till service have struggled with higher staff costs from table service rules.

If social distancing is going to be a long term plan, then its a long term plan that takes out many industries.

The UK simply isn't in a position to "learn to live with it

You’ve made some good points jasjas improved hand hygiene and mask wearing in some public spaces had already been implemented though.

Agree OP. There are too many intellectually-challenged people who can't see the compromise and are just wailing "do we stay locked up forever and destroy all the businesses?" Without being able to see that it's perfectly possible to open up shops/ businesses while keeping some mitigation measures in place such as masks.

And that is what "living with virus" actually means to me. Pulling up your socks and getting on with it as best you can, whilst protecting those at risk. Like a functioning society. Instead of whingeing about wearing a mask and expecting others to stay at home for an indefinite time so they can "get back to normal".

Like Brexit, the pandemic has exposed people's ignorance and selfishness. Tbh that affects my MH far more than having to wear a mask in Sainsbury's.

@Doublestar

I've said this on every one of these threads. My CEV DS is double vaccinated, but even catching a mild form of Covid will kill him. I'm carrying on the same way after the 19th.

How can you know this for sure though? If Covid would mean death for him - surely he cannot venture outside etc in case of catching a cold/flu also?
I agree you should carry on doing what you feel safer doing, but you don't expect others to carry on indefinitely surely?

I don't think it's unreasonable to hope that people wouldn't mind wearing a mask to protect people in that position so that everyone gets equal chance to go back to some kind of adjusted normal. Instead of the survival of the fittest mentality that seems to be plaguing us at the moment.

@jasjas1973

Just where is the "middle ground" where life can continue without entire industries moth balled?

Where we are now?
Current restrictions allow businesses to open.

Ever rising infections will screw the economy as people wont go out and spend.

There can of course be some relaxation, esp on TnT and isolations but we should stay where we are in the main.

Hospitality will be affected but i don't see why most of europe can manage with table service but we can't?

But we are heading towards 100k per day as things are now

Yes we are, so why try and make that figure even higher?

Which is what will happen when night clubs re open etc etc.

As much as we all want restrictions to end, it has to be done in a way that, as much as possible, allows hospitals and staff to manage increased admissions.

The restrictions within weddings are pointless, once booze comes into it, all SD goes out the window, you may as well not bother.

As for choirs? wtf? again ridiculous.

@BonnesVacances

Agree OP. There are too many intellectually-challenged people who can't see the compromise and are just wailing "do we stay locked up forever and destroy all the businesses?" Without being able to see that it's perfectly possible to open up shops/ businesses while keeping some mitigation measures in place such as masks.

And that is what "living with virus" actually means to me. Pulling up your socks and getting on with it as best you can, whilst protecting those at risk. Like a functioning society. Instead of whingeing about wearing a mask and expecting others to stay at home for an indefinite time so they can "get back to normal".

Like Brexit, the pandemic has exposed people's ignorance and selfishness. Tbh that affects my MH far more than having to wear a mask in Sainsbury's.

Beautifully expressed - I agree with all you have written here Bonnes.

@WhenSheWasBad

I would like “learn to live with it” to mean improved healthcare, vaccines, sanitation, ventilation and mask wearing.

Agree.

@BonnesVacances

Agree OP. There are too many intellectually-challenged people who can't see the compromise and are just wailing "do we stay locked up forever and destroy all the businesses?" Without being able to see that it's perfectly possible to open up shops/ businesses while keeping some mitigation measures in place such as masks.

And that is what "living with virus" actually means to me. Pulling up your socks and getting on with it as best you can, whilst protecting those at risk. Like a functioning society. Instead of whingeing about wearing a mask and expecting others to stay at home for an indefinite time so they can "get back to normal".

Like Brexit, the pandemic has exposed people's ignorance and selfishness. Tbh that affects my MH far more than having to wear a mask in Sainsbury's.

Very well said.

There are a few mitigations that can continue, painlessly and with very, very little effort, whilst still supporting the economy (like Brenda and her pals jetting off to Tenerife, since she's dying for a holiday!). To remove all of these is stupid at this time.

We do need to learn to live with it, but it means different things to different people.

@WhenSheWasBad

The UK simply isn't in a position to "learn to live with it

You’ve made some good points jasjas improved hand hygiene and mask wearing in some public spaces had already been implemented though.

And has proved not to work. We're heading towards 100k cases per day even with SD, masks, hand washing etc. To slow/stop the spread, we need to reverse restriction relaxations, or probably even have another lockdown. If you don't want cases to continue to rise, we need to take a step back, close indoors bars/restaurants, maybe close non essential retail, etc etc. Is that what you want?

@BonnesVacances

Agree OP. There are too many intellectually-challenged people who can't see the compromise and are just wailing "do we stay locked up forever and destroy all the businesses?" Without being able to see that it's perfectly possible to open up shops/ businesses while keeping some mitigation measures in place such as masks.

And that is what "living with virus" actually means to me. Pulling up your socks and getting on with it as best you can, whilst protecting those at risk. Like a functioning society. Instead of whingeing about wearing a mask and expecting others to stay at home for an indefinite time so they can "get back to normal".

Like Brexit, the pandemic has exposed people's ignorance and selfishness. Tbh that affects my MH far more than having to wear a mask in Sainsbury's.

That's not true though. We're getting fast rising infection rates even with the current restrictions. So they're not working are they? Opening up with masks/SD etc has now proved NOT to work. If they worked, we wouldn't be having 30k+ infections per day and rising. If you want to stop and reverse that, we need to go back to lockdown, i.e. close non essential retail, close pubs/restaurants.

yes 'the survival of the fittest' that is the mindset that i think causes the most upset.
The irony is that very fit, healthy young people have died of covid, while some vunerable have recovered. Know one knows if they will be fine or not.

But the attitude that certain groups of society are disposable is elitist and abilism. That because a. Is older their life has less value. Because b. Has learning difficulties they have no rights, because c has diabetes they are a strain on resources so its actually a benefit if they die 🙄. Because d. Has asthma so their life quality doesnt matter. OR e has autism so they has had donot treat added to their medical records because they arent equal.

This is a downwards slope. First they came for the elderly but i wasnt old so i did nithing, then they came for the diabetics but iwasnt diabetic so i did nothing, then they came for the asthmatics but i wasnt asthmatic so i did nothing. Then they came for me and there was no one prepared to help me either.
One day we will all be old, anyo e can develop any illness at any time.

No one know just how they will fare in the survival of the fittest society