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Original poster

People who say 'We've got to learn to live with it'

203 replies

Mixmeup · 10/07/2021 17:53

People say this when they mean, 'I think we should ignore Covid, crack on, never mention it again and tough shit to the vulnerable'.

Before anyone asks, yes I absolutely believe we've got to learn to live with it. But my version of 'We've got to learn to live with it' means we've got to find a way to open up society, live our lives and deal with Covid better at the same time. Not just attempt to go back to exactly how everything was before and stick our fingers in our ears. I'm talking about continuing to work on improving treatments, rolling out vaccinations and looking at improving them, funding the NHS much, much better, improving ventilation in schools, working on reducing crowding in schools, encouraging hybrid working - etc etc. Why does 'learning to live with Covid' mean throwing all the restrictions out of the window rather than actually finding ways forward?

OP posts:
asdfsadfasdf · 10/07/2021 20:42

I'll happily continue to wear a mask in shops and supermarkets and in unventilated areas e.g. corridors at work - even if the gov says I don't have to - it's called 'making my own decisions'.

I say go back to normal. I've had my two vaccines but won't be taking any booster. This isn't a life.

screwcovid · 10/07/2021 20:44

@asdfsadfasdf

I'll happily continue to wear a mask in shops and supermarkets and in unventilated areas e.g. corridors at work - even if the gov says I don't have to - it's called 'making my own decisions'.

I say go back to normal. I've had my two vaccines but won't be taking any booster. This isn't a life.

Well said
PurpleOkapi · 10/07/2021 20:46

Learning to live with it means shifting the responsibility from the government to individuals. Those who are high-risk can take whatever measures they believe are necessary for their own health, and they should be supported in doing so. For some, it may never be safe for them to come out of 'lockdown mode,' and that's unfortunate. But it doesn't mean no one else should ever be allowed to.

mintylovely · 10/07/2021 20:47

We need to find a new normal. When I lived in Hong Kong post SARS it just became normal to use face masks on public transport and be temperature scanned on arrival. Old normal is a past state of being. Learning to live with it means adapting to a new normal not a return to what was.

KimmyAndMe · 10/07/2021 20:49

Given the sheer number of people who caught it IN hospital, no I don't think the NHS has protected people anywhere near enough. There are plenty of people who'd still be alive today had they not gone into a hospital

That’s very true. And lots of people have died because they couldn’t get into hospital when the NHS was overwhelmed with covid patients. Maybe the solution is for the NHS to not have to treat people who present with covid after refusing the vaccine.

People who refuse the vaccine demand everyone to respect their decision. Why should our NHS, staff and genuine patients, who depend on hospital treatment, have to suffer because of other peoples choices?

lightnesspixie · 10/07/2021 20:51

Yawn

XenoBitch · 10/07/2021 20:53

@KimmyAndMe

Given the sheer number of people who caught it IN hospital, no I don't think the NHS has protected people anywhere near enough. There are plenty of people who'd still be alive today had they not gone into a hospital

That’s very true. And lots of people have died because they couldn’t get into hospital when the NHS was overwhelmed with covid patients. Maybe the solution is for the NHS to not have to treat people who present with covid after refusing the vaccine.

People who refuse the vaccine demand everyone to respect their decision. Why should our NHS, staff and genuine patients, who depend on hospital treatment, have to suffer because of other peoples choices?

Should the NHS refuse to treat people who have had severe side effects from the vaccine too? They chose to have it, after all. And also people who have been told they need to lose weight as it was getting life threatening, drinkers who were told to stop, smokers who were told to stop, self-harmers who stubbornly refuse to find another coping mechanism... the list goes on.
Original poster
Mixmeup · 10/07/2021 20:53

@feellikeanalien

I've seen a lot of references on different threads to more ventilation in schools. What is actually meant by that other than having windows open?
Well, for a start, not every classroom has windows that open!

Proper, modern windows that open to allow a decent level of air circulation (many schools are in old buildings).

And of course air conditioning/filtration systems. I recognise the cost is huge but to not even bother starting isn't 'learning to live with it'.

There's a reason for that 'school smell' and it's not a healthy one.

OP posts:
Original poster
Mixmeup · 10/07/2021 20:55

@KimmyAndMe

Given the sheer number of people who caught it IN hospital, no I don't think the NHS has protected people anywhere near enough. There are plenty of people who'd still be alive today had they not gone into a hospital

That’s very true. And lots of people have died because they couldn’t get into hospital when the NHS was overwhelmed with covid patients. Maybe the solution is for the NHS to not have to treat people who present with covid after refusing the vaccine.

People who refuse the vaccine demand everyone to respect their decision. Why should our NHS, staff and genuine patients, who depend on hospital treatment, have to suffer because of other peoples choices?

I get that it's frustrating but that's a non starter.

The NHS is packed full of people who are in some way responsible for their predicament. Lifestyle, alcohol use, decision to have children, choice to drive a car when they didn't strictly have to go to the shop, doing something silly, riding a bike... etc.

OP posts:
Original poster
Mixmeup · 10/07/2021 20:56

@mintylovely

We need to find a new normal. When I lived in Hong Kong post SARS it just became normal to use face masks on public transport and be temperature scanned on arrival. Old normal is a past state of being. Learning to live with it means adapting to a new normal not a return to what was.
I absolutely agree. It makes me quite ashamed to be British that people are so whiney about face masks and want everything to go back to 'normal', even when it's to the detriment of others.
OP posts:
Original poster
Mixmeup · 10/07/2021 20:57

@Halloweenrainbow

"We have to learn to ADAPT to it" might be more fitting and acknowledge that certain things may have to permanently change so we can exist alongside covid for the longer term.
EXACTLY! Adapt to it. But people use 'live with it' meaning crack on as if it's 2018 and never speak of it again.
OP posts:
Original poster
Mixmeup · 10/07/2021 20:59

@PurpleOkapi

Learning to live with it means shifting the responsibility from the government to individuals. Those who are high-risk can take whatever measures they believe are necessary for their own health, and they should be supported in doing so. For some, it may never be safe for them to come out of 'lockdown mode,' and that's unfortunate. But it doesn't mean no one else should ever be allowed to.
I really don't like these kind of straw man arguments either.

Like when people say 'So you're happy to stay locked up forever then?'

Like we were ever locked up! And like it's forever. It's just a totally false argument.

In this case, nobody is saying that 'no one else should ever be allowed to come out of lockdown mode'. They're saying that we should have some mitigation so that we have an inclusive and safer society during an ongoing pandemic.

OP posts:
KimmyAndMe · 10/07/2021 21:18

Should the NHS refuse to treat people who have had severe side effects from the vaccine too? They chose to have it, after all.
And also people who have been told they need to lose weight as it was getting life threatening, drinkers who were told to stop, smokers who were told to stop, self-harmers who stubbornly refuse to find another coping mechanism... the list goes on

Yawn 🥱 Everyone was advised to have the jab to not overwhelm the NHS. People who drink, smoke, take drugs, are obese blah blah endanger their own lives. They do not close wards to others needing access to NHS wards for life saving treatment.

FeatheredHope · 10/07/2021 21:24

It makes me quite ashamed to be British that people are so whiney about face masks and want everything to go back to 'normal', even when it's to the detriment of others.

Especially when we’ve arguably had much easier lockdowns and measures than so many other countries.

XenoBitch · 10/07/2021 21:27

@KimmyAndMe

*Should the NHS refuse to treat people who have had severe side effects from the vaccine too? They chose to have it, after all. And also people who have been told they need to lose weight as it was getting life threatening, drinkers who were told to stop, smokers who were told to stop, self-harmers who stubbornly refuse to find another coping mechanism... the list goes on*

Yawn 🥱 Everyone was advised to have the jab to not overwhelm the NHS. People who drink, smoke, take drugs, are obese blah blah endanger their own lives. They do not close wards to others needing access to NHS wards for life saving treatment.

Really? People often complain A&E is over ran with drunk people on the weekends, and that they are taking time away from people who need "real" medical attention.

I was told by an A&E nurse that I was wasting their time due to being taken there for self inflicted injuries. I have been told the same by a paramedic too.

If you need treatment, you need treatment. The NHS is there to treat you, not judge, and definitely not turn you away based on how you came to be ill/injured.

Also, Covid wards are not full with unvaccinated people. Vaccinated end up there too, so blaming unvaccinated people is really not fair.

ArseInTheCoOpWindow · 10/07/2021 21:28

Should the NHS refuse to treat people who have had severe side effects from the vaccine too? They chose to have it, after all.
And also people who have been told they need to lose weight as it was getting life threatening, drinkers who were told to stop, smokers who were told to stop, self-harmers who stubbornly refuse to find another coping mechanism... the list goes on

No! This is a public health emergency. Having the vaccine is to protect public health as much as the individual. And it affects every single person, not just disparate groups.

PurpleOkapi · 10/07/2021 21:29

@Mixmeup

But when you say "we should have some mitigation," what you mean is "everyone else be banned from doing certain things that were previously considered normal so that a small number of people can live more normally." Whether we're talking about masks, lockdowns, isolation requirements, or anything else, the principle is the same. It doesn't matter whether you call it "mitigation" or "collective responsibility" or any other euphemism. At-risk individuals foisting the bulk of the responsibility for their own health onto others isn't sustainable indefinitely, and "learning to live with it" means adopting an approach that is.

XenoBitch · 10/07/2021 21:30

@ArseInTheCoOpWindow

*Should the NHS refuse to treat people who have had severe side effects from the vaccine too? They chose to have it, after all. And also people who have been told they need to lose weight as it was getting life threatening, drinkers who were told to stop, smokers who were told to stop, self-harmers who stubbornly refuse to find another coping mechanism... the list goes on*

No! This is a public health emergency. Having the vaccine is to protect public health as much as the individual. And it affects every single person, not just disparate groups.

If that is the case then why is it not mandatory? Smallpox vaccine was.
whatthejiggeries · 10/07/2021 21:30

To me it's going back to life as it was

Alannawhorideslikeaman · 10/07/2021 21:31

@Usual2usual

We have been living with deadly diseases since time began, we don't spend our days worrying about measels (because vaccines) or smallpox (eradicated because of vaccines) or flu (which has new variants every year but - vaccines).

We went through a swine flu pandemic in the 2000's ffs and no one was demanding masks or social distancing then either.

So for me, living with covid means living the same as we did before Covid, just with one extra serious virus in the mix for which we need to be vaccinated.

Yes, this.
ArseInTheCoOpWindow · 10/07/2021 21:40

If that is the case then why is it not mandatory? Smallpox vaccine was

Because people would go on about civil liberties and rights. And Boris and his lot are libertarians.

Puzzledandpissedoff · 10/07/2021 21:45

So 19% of people want a 10pm curfew “permanently, regardless of the risk from Covid-19”. 26% of people want all nightclubs and casinos closed permanently, again even if there’s no risk

Yes, I also noticd that snippet from the much-touted "survey"

I'd be fascinated to know how they decided who to ask, but overall it seems to confirm that "surveys" can be made to support anything the questioner wants them to - even if it's just that complete loons walk among us

It also chimes with what a PP said about the level of hysteria growing the longer this nonsense continues (and hysteria's not a word I tend to use, but it's becoming increasingly apt in the circumstances)

Bobholll · 10/07/2021 21:51

Learning to live with it is being able to make a personal judgement for me. I’ll assess me one risk & crack on.

Tumbleweed101 · 10/07/2021 21:58

We're grown ups and able to risk assess. We have been taught over the last year and half what we need to do to reduce the risk of transmission. There is no longer any need for things like face masks to be legally enforced. Most of us will wear them when it is felt necessary, without the compulsion of law to wear them when it isn't - for example, if you are the only person on a bus at that time why do you need to? Completely different to a packed rush hour one.

I hate wearing facemasks and struggle with glasses misting up, if I could go to the supermarket at a quiet time without the need to wear one then I'll go then rather than at a packed busy time of day where it might still be wise to. There are adjustments we can all make without being made to by law.

PurpleOkapi · 10/07/2021 22:04

@ArseInTheCoOpWindow

Survey yesterday.
Apparently 36% of people think the check-ins and the contact-tracing act need to continue forever, even if covid were to disappear tomorrow. I have to wonder how these questions were phrased, because that's nonsensical. The only way it would make any kind of sense is if contact-tracing were expanded to different illnesses like the seasonal flu. Do that many people really support isolation requirements for possible cold and flu exposures, especially knowing what we all know about the app's frequent misfires?