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Original poster

People who say 'We've got to learn to live with it'

203 replies

Mixmeup · 10/07/2021 17:53

People say this when they mean, 'I think we should ignore Covid, crack on, never mention it again and tough shit to the vulnerable'.

Before anyone asks, yes I absolutely believe we've got to learn to live with it. But my version of 'We've got to learn to live with it' means we've got to find a way to open up society, live our lives and deal with Covid better at the same time. Not just attempt to go back to exactly how everything was before and stick our fingers in our ears. I'm talking about continuing to work on improving treatments, rolling out vaccinations and looking at improving them, funding the NHS much, much better, improving ventilation in schools, working on reducing crowding in schools, encouraging hybrid working - etc etc. Why does 'learning to live with Covid' mean throwing all the restrictions out of the window rather than actually finding ways forward?

OP posts:
Xenia · 10/07/2021 22:06

If you get paid to stay or work from home why would you not adore all these requirements to isolate? It's heaven for plenty of people.

XenoBitch · 10/07/2021 22:09

@Xenia

If you get paid to stay or work from home why would you not adore all these requirements to isolate? It's heaven for plenty of people.
Ha, yes... this.

And the people in the survey wanting a permanent 10pm curfew? I mean.. what? They must think anyone out after that time must be up to no good. Clearly not someone who is walking home from work after a day of delivery groceries to people privileged enough to work from home.

Flaxmeadow · 10/07/2021 22:21

Well said OP.

It's always 'we have to learn to live with it' (which is correct and always been true) but then followed by 'me me me' and 'what I want'

LilyPond2 · 10/07/2021 22:54

At-risk individuals foisting the bulk of the responsibility for their own health onto others isn't sustainable indefinitely,
@PurpleOkapi Ridiculous to equate draconian measures such as banning indoor gatherings with low cost mitigation measures such as mask wearing. Why can't people continue to wear masks on the bus for as long as case numbers remain high? Equally, why should people with very high risk businesses such as night clubs assume that their right to run a business takes precedence over reducing the prevalence of Covid?

KimmyAndMe · 10/07/2021 23:01

I was told by an A&E nurse that I was wasting their time due to being taken there for self inflicted injuries. I have been told the same by a paramedic too

I agree with them. If you choose to inflict injuries on yourself why do you expect NHS staff to mop up?

You have posted all over MN how it’s your right to refuse the covid jab. You have been asked time and again for your ideas as to how we can end this crisis. You have openly stated you don’t know.

If you are convinced that by not having the jab you will not contract covid why are you so against NHS staff being given the choice to treat you, or not, should you present with serious covid symptoms?

Surely you made your decision based on personal risk?

XenoBitch · 10/07/2021 23:06

@KimmyAndMe

I was told by an A&E nurse that I was wasting their time due to being taken there for self inflicted injuries. I have been told the same by a paramedic too

I agree with them. If you choose to inflict injuries on yourself why do you expect NHS staff to mop up?

You have posted all over MN how it’s your right to refuse the covid jab. You have been asked time and again for your ideas as to how we can end this crisis. You have openly stated you don’t know.

If you are convinced that by not having the jab you will not contract covid why are you so against NHS staff being given the choice to treat you, or not, should you present with serious covid symptoms?

Surely you made your decision based on personal risk?

I don't expect them to. I have always been taken by police on section. I have mental health issues that mean I harm myself.

If you have taken the time to look through my posting history, you will also see the reason why I am unable to have the vaccine. Being unable to have the vaccine does not mean I have the answers as to what measures we should take to ensure we get through this pandemic.

Nowhere have I said that I am not convinced I will contract Covid. If I get it, I don't actually care right now. I am under crisis team for suicidal thoughts and behaviours at the moment. Covid will make it easy.

Siepie · 10/07/2021 23:12

@KimmyAndMe

I was told by an A&E nurse that I was wasting their time due to being taken there for self inflicted injuries. I have been told the same by a paramedic too

I agree with them. If you choose to inflict injuries on yourself why do you expect NHS staff to mop up?

You have posted all over MN how it’s your right to refuse the covid jab. You have been asked time and again for your ideas as to how we can end this crisis. You have openly stated you don’t know.

If you are convinced that by not having the jab you will not contract covid why are you so against NHS staff being given the choice to treat you, or not, should you present with serious covid symptoms?

Surely you made your decision based on personal risk?

I agree with them. If you choose to inflict injuries on yourself why do you expect NHS staff to mop up?

I’m gobsmacked at that sentence. I hope you don’t work anywhere near the NHS if your understanding of mental health is that poor.

Nonmaquillee · 10/07/2021 23:14

Yes that’s what they mean.
It’s not going away. It’s a fact, not an attempt to be aggressive.

PurpleOkapi · 10/07/2021 23:18

@LilyPond2

Because despite all the propaganda to the contrary, it's fundamentally not anyone else's job to protect adults who'd rather not protect themselves. Someone who's scared to death of getting covid - perhaps for good reason - shouldn't go to nightclubs or be in close contact with unvaccinated people who go to nightclubs, or with anyone whose precautions and activities aren't known to them. The solution to that isn't to ban nightclubs, it's for that person to take responsibility for avoiding that contact. If that means they have to change jobs or stop working, that's no worse than nightclub workers having to change jobs or stop working. So why is it ok to tell nightclub workers that they have to sacrifice their jobs for someone else's benefit, but not ok to tell high-risk individuals that they might need to sacrifice their own jobs for their own benefit? No one should be prioritised over anyone else in that way.

WhenSheWasBad · 10/07/2021 23:28

Ridiculous to equate draconian measures such as banning indoor gatherings with low cost mitigation measures such as mask wearing. Why can't people continue to wear masks on the bus for as long as case numbers remain high? Equally, why should people with very high risk businesses such as night clubs assume that their right to run a business takes precedence over reducing the prevalence of Covid

Surely a sensible middle ground would be masks on public transport and other indoor places people really can’t avoid.
Mask free for nightclubs, restaurants, bars etc
If you are high risk, you avoid the nightclubs, bars and restaurants.

PineappleMojito · 10/07/2021 23:34

Most of us who have been key workers and still going out to work the whole time have been “living with it” while a lot of others were working from home/on furlough, ranting about masks from behind screens, and not having to go out and deal with “life out there” while Covid was at its height. I had a friend preach at me the other day that going to the gym and training with a group was “unsafe” when she’s been paid to stay home for nearly a year and a half. I have short shrift for the zero Covid brigade now, except from those who are CEV of course, I understand why they’d prefer that approach (got family members who are CEV and it’s been so tough on them). I’ve worked the whole way through this shitshow though with people with severe mental health issues, I need a goddamn life outside that - my patients were my only social contact at one point. It was ruinous for my mental health. And let’s not get started about how crazy waiting lists have got, the pressure to pile on the patients and carry large caseloads to get through them is huge. Through lockdown 3 I was getting calls every week from services I do contract work for going “are you sure you can’t take another one”. I saw first hand how people absolutely cracked under the isolation, constant fear and uncertainty and having all their coping mechanisms removed - and then experienced it myself and ended up on antidepressants.

Living with it means balancing Covid risk with mental and emotional health, restrictions on daily life being proportionate to the threat, which is now much less thanks to vaccines. And for the love of whatever you believe in, wash your hands! My granda would have said we need to bring back clean hands badges!

KimmyAndMe · 10/07/2021 23:35

I’m gobsmacked at that sentence. I hope you don’t work anywhere near the NHS if your understanding of mental health is that poor

No I don’t work within the NHS. Several members of my family and close friends, who are NHS workers, are considering whether to return (depending on what happens following England’s “Freedom Day”). Why do you think NHS staff should put themselves and their families at risk because people who think they are above Covid and refuse the vaccine present at hospital with covid symptoms?

Why should doctors, nurses, cleaners other patients put themselves at risk because someone thinks they are above Covid? I have already lost a 5 year old niece because she couldn’t access a ward assigned for her recovery following her potential, straightforward life saving operation, because of covid patients. WTF should I be concerned about an adult who has refused the jab because she is “scared”??

“Scared”!!! FFS!!

XenoBitch · 10/07/2021 23:42

@KimmyAndMe

I’m gobsmacked at that sentence. I hope you don’t work anywhere near the NHS if your understanding of mental health is that poor

No I don’t work within the NHS. Several members of my family and close friends, who are NHS workers, are considering whether to return (depending on what happens following England’s “Freedom Day”). Why do you think NHS staff should put themselves and their families at risk because people who think they are above Covid and refuse the vaccine present at hospital with covid symptoms?

Why should doctors, nurses, cleaners other patients put themselves at risk because someone thinks they are above Covid? I have already lost a 5 year old niece because she couldn’t access a ward assigned for her recovery following her potential, straightforward life saving operation, because of covid patients. WTF should I be concerned about an adult who has refused the jab because she is “scared”??

“Scared”!!! FFS!!

I don't think I am above Covid. I have never said anywhere that I think I am.

I am severely needle phobic to the point I zone out and get violent. I wish I fainted like most other phobics, but I don't. It was the mental health system that did that to me. Getting rugby tackled to the ground and injected against your will, will do that to you.
If someone comes near me with a needle, the police will get involved. That is how bad it is. It is not just "scared".

So, it is not just I am "scared". Imagine someone deathly scared of spiders being held down and some massive tarantula put on their face. You would not blame them for being even more scared would you.

HalzTangz · 10/07/2021 23:44

Because changes have already been made. Many companies have now introduced hybrid working, many people (more importantly) are practising better hygiene levels, changes are being brought in to improve the environment, government have put more money into schools and NHS.
Plus many are still living in fear, those people will massively reduce their contact with the outside world, meaning less crowded places, less crowded buses and trains etc

XenoBitch · 10/07/2021 23:46

@KimmyAndMe

I’m gobsmacked at that sentence. I hope you don’t work anywhere near the NHS if your understanding of mental health is that poor

No I don’t work within the NHS. Several members of my family and close friends, who are NHS workers, are considering whether to return (depending on what happens following England’s “Freedom Day”). Why do you think NHS staff should put themselves and their families at risk because people who think they are above Covid and refuse the vaccine present at hospital with covid symptoms?

Why should doctors, nurses, cleaners other patients put themselves at risk because someone thinks they are above Covid? I have already lost a 5 year old niece because she couldn’t access a ward assigned for her recovery following her potential, straightforward life saving operation, because of covid patients. WTF should I be concerned about an adult who has refused the jab because she is “scared”??

“Scared”!!! FFS!!

If you had a dear friend who had gone through some awful trauma such as rape... and was scared to death about getting a smear test done. Would you tell her "oh, you think you are above cervical cancer"? I bet my dog's life that you would not. So why the hell do you think you can come on here and tell someone who so terrified to the point they dissociate and are a danger to themselves and other people that they are just "scared"... and that is along with the whole comment about people who self harm should be denied treatment. You have kids? You bought that on yourself too. I hope you had a home birth with no NHS input.
PopcornMuncher · 10/07/2021 23:49

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XenoBitch · 10/07/2021 23:51

[quote PopcornMuncher]@PineappleMojito I completely agree. I am in a situation not unlike yours and am fed up to the back teeth of people saying they're scared to go back to work (excluding the vulnerable). An awful lot of us have had no choice for the last 15 months.

@KimmyAndMe your comments are awful

@XenoBitch I hope you are OK Flowers[/quote]
Thank you. I am not ok, to be honest. I can't believe how awful some people can be.

PineappleMojito · 10/07/2021 23:53

@XenoBitch you’re not alone, I’ve a friend who’s experienced similar and absolutely won’t have any vaccines at all, not just the Covid ones. Sorry to hear you went through that and also the lack of compassion you’ve received. Mental health should have parity of esteem.

PopcornMuncher · 10/07/2021 23:53

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NotSonicTheHedgehog · 10/07/2021 23:55

@KimmyAndMe speaking as someone with bipolar disorder your comments are disgusting

XenoBitch · 10/07/2021 23:57

[quote PineappleMojito]@XenoBitch you’re not alone, I’ve a friend who’s experienced similar and absolutely won’t have any vaccines at all, not just the Covid ones. Sorry to hear you went through that and also the lack of compassion you’ve received. Mental health should have parity of esteem.[/quote]
Thank you. It is not just needles with me, it is anything medical. I had a pulse oximeter put on my finger last week and had a cop there holding my hand to get me through it (I was on a section hence police there). Feels pathetic even typing that out, but it is what it is.

I used to work for the NHS and had all the jabs. Hurts to see people think I am some anti-vaxxer, or someone who gets a bit tearful at the thought of a needle.

KimmyAndMe · 10/07/2021 23:59

You have kids? You bought that on yourself too. I hope you had a home birth with no NHS input

Yes I have kids. Why wouldn’t I have them in hospital? They were born long before Covid. In fact my 19 year old is terrified of needles but had the Covid Jab because she wanted to keep her grandparents safe from any potential risk from her. What’s the problem with that? My DS (25) has autism. He’s also had the covid jab to keep himself, his grandparents and workmates safe. Was he wrong??

XenoBitch · 11/07/2021 00:01

@KimmyAndMe

You have kids? You bought that on yourself too. I hope you had a home birth with no NHS input

Yes I have kids. Why wouldn’t I have them in hospital? They were born long before Covid. In fact my 19 year old is terrified of needles but had the Covid Jab because she wanted to keep her grandparents safe from any potential risk from her. What’s the problem with that? My DS (25) has autism. He’s also had the covid jab to keep himself, his grandparents and workmates safe. Was he wrong??

Your pregnancy was self inflicted. Why should the NHS help? That is the same logic you applied to me and my self harm.

Your relatives had the vaccine? Great! I bet they didn't need security/cops around to ensure people were safe when they did so.

PRabbit · 11/07/2021 00:14

The NHS was there to protect us, not the other way around.
“Protect the NHS” doesn’t mean save it. It means “keep numbers low enough so the NHS can treat everyone”. Because the NHS can only cope with so many sick people before it runs out of capacity and is forced to leave people to die.

PRabbit · 11/07/2021 00:18

We do need to learn to live with it but when I say that I don't mean burying our heads in the sand
Indeed. Some people seem to think it means just going back to normal and pretending Covid isn’t happening, while the vulnerable and elderly and unlucky people die. I struggle to understand this mindset where people think something has to end just because they’re sick of it. There is no end. There is no going back. The world has changed forever. If you don’t like that it’s just tough.