Govt realises that loads of people getting covid might actually be an issue

[noblegiraffe]

Sam Coates of Sky News is tweeting that Whitehall is getting concerned about the sheer number of people who will be having to isolate in the coming days, some from getting covid, and some from having to isolate.

"One source said gvt modelling done under Hancock suggested this scale cd potentially compromise transport and healthcare"

"One government source called this another lockdown by the back door"

twitter.com/samcoatessky/status/1413224477450817536?s=21

Apparently the plan is to make the app less sensitive so that fewer people have to isolate.

Stopping isolations increases infections so not necessarily a great solution.

I'm sure all the planning is well in hand though.

What about staff in hospital settings and carehomes @Badbadbunny? Do you think it is time to stop regularly testing staff? I take your point about moving away from testing without symptoms as I can't see this plan working whilst we are still doing this but how can we prevent sick/vulnerable people being put at risk?

Lucky then, that by 19 July, two thirds of adults in the UK will be double jabbed, with all older/vulnerable people (the groups most at risk) already having the option of being double jabbed weeks ago (just in time for the original removal of restrictions mid June!).

Two thirds of adults, not two thirds of the population. We’re not vaccinating children so a much higher percentage of adults need to be vaccinated for proper here immunity levels without vaccinating kids.

@Noterook

Surprised anyone still uses the app to be honest, especially as if you get pinged you have zero lego obligation to isolate, and it's inaccurate so who knows if you actually are at risk. We should have improved on the olde track and trace system.

interesting - I use it, this week went out for a meal with a friend who also uses it, we both checked in at the venue and had the scanning on. I installed it as soon as it was released and have never been pinged, nor has she - and she works f/t. She has had to isolate due to contacts at work, but never via the app.

@mrshoho

What about staff in hospital settings and carehomes *@Badbadbunny*? Do you think it is time to stop regularly testing staff? I take your point about moving away from testing without symptoms as I can't see this plan working whilst we are still doing this but how can we prevent sick/vulnerable people being put at risk?

How well did we protect sick/vulnerable/elderly from flu and norovirus in hospitals and care homes? Where was the outcry when norovirus ripped through hospital wards or care homes? There's a limit to what protection can reasonably be provided in these settings.

My OH has blood cancer. He's not been "protected" in hospital settings over the past year. He's had to sit in busy/cramped waiting rooms without ventilation. He's had to "remind" nurses to change their gloves and wipe equipment when moving between patients. Sometimes he gets his temperature checked when attending the day treatment unit, sometimes he doesn't.

He had blood cancer pre covid. He knows he's at risk of infections etc., so he altered his life accordingly, i.e. avoided crowded places, regular hand washing, carrying anti-bac gel, etc. He'll continue to do the same. He used to do it to avoid norovirus, flu etc., and will now do it to avoid Covid too. There's a limit to what he expects everyone else to do around him. Even before Covid, due to his blood cancer, he would "remind" nurses and doctors to change their gloves etc.

Nothing is risk free. Never has been, never will be.

@52andblue
@TokyoSushi

Totally. You couldn't make this up. I sometimes feel we are all in some kind of dystopian sci fi film. George Orwell would have a field day with all the double speak and performances we are getting from the govt.

I can't take anything they say seriously any more, if I did in the first place.

They are taking a huge gamble with our lives and our children in search of herd immunity. That's the only reason I can think of that they are doing what they are now.

They are not massively bothered if it doesn't pay off.

Like you said Tokyo - the circuit for after dinner speeches and memoirs is still a good option once they step off the podium for the last time, waving us 'good luck with your pandemic!'.

@hedgehogger1 That's it in a nutshell.

Sleepwalking into another Major Fuck Up.

OK, so due to the massive rise in infections, it's clear CURRENT restrictions aren't working. So for those of you that don't want any more relaxation, presumably you all want to go back a couple of months, i.e. close indoor pubs/restaurants, restrict attendances to weddings/funerals, etc., or do you want to go back to lockdown to get numbers down? It'd be interesting to know how you want to control the infections and get back down to low numbers? Do you really want to go back to lockdown for another 3 months (because that's what it takes!).

@Badbadbunny

OK, so due to the massive rise in infections, it's clear CURRENT restrictions aren't working. So for those of you that don't want any more relaxation, presumably you all want to go back a couple of months, i.e. close indoor pubs/restaurants, restrict attendances to weddings/funerals, etc., or do you want to go back to lockdown to get numbers down? It'd be interesting to know how you want to control the infections and get back down to low numbers? Do you really want to go back to lockdown for another 3 months (because that's what it takes!).

Or maybe with cases so out of control we maintain more of the status quo? Masks in shops and public transport, limits on gatherings, yes it will cost money to support business that are affected but less than if it gets so bad we have to have a hard lockdown.

@Badbadbunny similar to my dh. So your view is stop regularly testing health staff as we don't do this with other viruses.

@Badbadbunny

OK, so due to the massive rise in infections, it's clear CURRENT restrictions aren't working. So for those of you that don't want any more relaxation, presumably you all want to go back a couple of months, i.e. close indoor pubs/restaurants, restrict attendances to weddings/funerals, etc., or do you want to go back to lockdown to get numbers down? It'd be interesting to know how you want to control the infections and get back down to low numbers? Do you really want to go back to lockdown for another 3 months (because that's what it takes!).

As you say, current restrictions aren't stopping infections, so we will have to see where this current strategy takes us.

I think once nightclubs open and isolation rules change, infections will sky rocket.

By July 19th, there will still be millions of people with no jab or just one, some scientists think this is an ideal set of conditions for the virus to learn to live with the vaccination.

Bizarre it only took Hancock resigning to change course entirely.

@Noterook

Surprised anyone still uses the app to be honest, especially as if you get pinged you have zero lego obligation to isolate, and it's inaccurate so who knows if you actually are at risk. We should have improved on the olde track and trace system.

Still Dido Harding got paid nearly millions for doing it. On a Baroness ticket that's one less unemployed to worry about isn't it, cheer up, look on the bright side...

If we haven't done a good job protecting patients, care home residents and CEV children in the past why not do more now? Given flu is likely to be on the rise this winter why not put in measures that reduces risk there too?

Nothing will be 100% safe ever but that doesn't mean reverting to pot luck.

DD has severe learning disabilities. She's not in a position to remind people to change gloves, sanitise, wear a mask or open a window. Neither are most of the children and young adults she goes to school with.

No I don't want to go back in to lockdown. I want sensible, practical, proportional measures which includes testing staff, masks on public transport and investment in decent ventilation in schools and colleges.
Maybe we can divert funds from things like the new trade yacht.

It'd be interesting to know how you want to control the infections and get back down to low numbers?

Bluntly: You can't/don't control infections. You can't 'stop' a virus.

If the majority of those getting infected now only know about it because a test has told them - and the vaccinatable vulnerable are vaccinated - then what is the panic?

@hedgehogger1

I should have bought more bog roll... :D just sleep walking into another giant fuck up

Sleepwalking is too generous. They’re running straight at it with eyes wide open.

No I don't want to go back in to lockdown. I want sensible, practical, proportional measures which includes testing staff, masks on public transport and investment in decent ventilation in schools and colleges.
Maybe we can divert funds from things like the new trade yacht.

This sounds way more sensible than where we are now.

Shame they aren't concerned about nearly a million school pupils isolating as part of year group bubbles, despite data that relatively few of these pupils go on to develop Covid.

@Notonthestairs I have a DS with multiple SEND too.

Agree we need sensible measures to help them avoid it.

They have enough on their plate without a bout of Covid which may or may not lead to longer term complications for them or their family members/carers.

Bubbles have probably protected more children than we think.

The alternatives seem fairly futile.

I don't know what the answer is - there is no where to distance, large classes in small spaces, ventilation is poor, no masks any more in communal areas...the perfect conditions for Covid is it not?

@Badbadbunny

OK, so due to the massive rise in infections, it's clear CURRENT restrictions aren't working. So for those of you that don't want any more relaxation, presumably you all want to go back a couple of months, i.e. close indoor pubs/restaurants, restrict attendances to weddings/funerals, etc., or do you want to go back to lockdown to get numbers down? It'd be interesting to know how you want to control the infections and get back down to low numbers? Do you really want to go back to lockdown for another 3 months (because that's what it takes!).

Sorry to hear about your DH @Badbadbunny

What you are saying is spot on. You can appreciate this despite your DH being in the vulnerable category.

It’s bizzare that people believe that this will disappear to the point it will stop spreading…

Mitigation until child vaccines approved.

We can't get rid of Covid but we can do our best to stop it harming people now and long term. Now because we are still working on prevention.

Hopefully it will go down to very small number of cases in future.

The less cases the less adverse effects on less people.

Its a case of minimizing not necessarily zero Covid.

It doesn't have to let rip or zero. There is a middle way and many scientists endorse it.

@KisstheTeapot14 it's a massive headache isn't it. It also means that I am opposed to any further lockdowns - the withdrawal of key services last year took us to a very bad place. I need services functioning as best they can but with measures adapted to reduce - not eradicate- infections.

Yes - I agree.

We fought so hard to get DS into a school where he'd thrive in Sept and the transport etc etc. You know what it's like - everything with an LA is uphill. Now I am so worried he will go and catch Covid if there are precious few safety measures in place.

We deregistered for the whole of Y6 and have home Ed but I would like him to go to school. He's been kept safe - and we have - but he does miss friends.

Not schools fault. Gavin W needs to give his head a bloody good wobble. He has no idea how stressful it is, using our 'personal responsibility' on behalf of our children. We are faced with impossible choices.

^ for @Notonthestairs ^

They say “personal responsibility” like as if it is possible to hide yourself away and never catch Covid if you want to do that. When in reality that just isn’t possible.

@nothingnobleaboutstalking

Shame they aren't concerned about nearly a million school pupils isolating as part of year group bubbles, despite data that relatively few of these pupils go on to develop Covid.

Do you have data on this? As far as I know it wasn’t being collected.