What is going on?????

[Dustyboots]

Sorry, I know there’ve been countless threads discussing this sort of thing. But so far all I can find are people arguing about masks and smoking ...

What is our government doing? What are they up to? I’ve just seen a tweet with a German news report that says the UK is conducting a mass Covid experiment.

Is our government trying to crash the NHS in order to dismantle it?

What are they up to?

speckledostrichegg

Most deaths have been in the very old, whether vaccinated or not, so why is it so awful if unvaxxed old people die from covid, but it’s fine and to be expected that old people who are fully vaxxed die from covid. That’s what I meant by my question really.

@Tealightsandd No AZ in the States?

Re hospitalised cases, the PHE figures today show that around 37% of those who were hospitalised for covid (and not for another reason and then later tested positive) are partially or fully vaxxed.

@DownSideUpped

speckledostrichegg

Most deaths have been in the very old, whether vaccinated or not, so why is it so awful if unvaxxed old people die from covid, but it’s fine and to be expected that old people who are fully vaxxed die from covid. That’s what I meant by my question really.

eh? I don't understand what you mean

The vaccines are currently the best protection we've got and there will be far less death in a vaccinated population of elderly people than an unvaccinated population of elderly people.

It's shit that protection isn't 100% (and that the elderly and immunosuppressed are the ones who it tends to be lower for), but that's exactly the argument for mass vaccination as it reduces transmission in the general population. The elderly will then be protected by both the vaccine (even if not that effective) and the population-level immunity generated by mass vaccination.

If we let cases get to 100,000 a day then yes, anyone who is vulnerable and has had vaccine failure is significantly at risk. This is one of the reasons I'm very passionate about not letting rates get out of control, and offering vaccination those who aren't vulnerable.

People really can’t read scientific data it’s embarrassing

Vaccines do not 100% prevent deaths- even in a population of 100% vaccinated - all the deaths that will occur will be in vaccinated people! Can people honestly not grasp that?!

Doesn’t mean that vaccines don’t help

It’s the lives they save that counts and numbers now are lower per day than an average flu year

The groups which resulted in almost 99% of hospitalisations and deaths have had 2 doses so Boris is right “if or we don’t open now we never will”

If people have refused then I say tough shit!

Those not yet fully vaccinated by age are at almost zero risk of death - it’s not the fault of the rest of us if they can’t read data or are anxious or depressed

Do not start spouting long covid bollocks because long covid numbers don’t come close to the effect of restrictions

It is a fact that kids are rarely affected by covid & shouldn’t be demonised as spreaders.
The jab is indeed experimental until 2023.
What are the ingredients? What are the long term effects - no one knows.
The sooner people realise we have to live with various viruses like we always have the sooner we can stop all this fear mongering & get on with our lives.
Just a small point, my postman, Amazon delivery guy & all the people (mostly elderly) who work in my local coop haven’t dropped dead - funny that 🤷‍♀️

The gvt seems to be working on the idea that it's better to have have a peak in the summer to avoid an exit peak in the autumn...Cynically i think they've all got summer holiday plans and are terrified of what's happening to the economy and public mood.

The elderly and vulnerable will soon be losing the boost from their earlier vaccines so i'm guessing there will be a booster program...? Other than that we're guinea pigs for the govt 'freedom day' and letting the infection rates soar. Anyone know if the Lamda variant is on the rise yet?! 😕

Cynically i think they've all got summer holiday plans and are terrified of what's happening to the economy and public mood.

I don't think that's cynical at all. I think it's one of the most likely reasons for this untimely ending of restrictions.

The age cohort who are almost all fully vaccinated tend to vote Tory.

Is that the same age cohort that have suffered most of the Covid deaths @mathanxiety?

If you think this is a Tory plot to protect their voters then they’ve not made much of a job of it.

It is fortunate for the government that they have medical justification for vaccinating their core voters first. That said, they haven't made much of a job of anything.

tigger1001 Fri 09-Jul-21 21:38:48

The rates in Scotland have been increasing for weeks and weeks now. Football etc hasn't helped but the rates were already increasing. The so called measures don't seem to be having an impact.

The data doesn't support what you claim.

Oxford apparently currently seems to be very Covid challenging:

314 new Covid cases in Oxfordshire and 12 patients hospitalised

www.oxfordmail.co.uk/news/19433258.314-new-covid-cases-oxfordshire-12-patients-hospitalised/

Anti-vaxxers hound hundreds in queue for walk-in Covid jabs

www.oxfordmail.co.uk/news/19405002.anti-vaxxers-hound-hundreds-queue-walk-in-covid-jabs/

@MercyBooth
USA hasn't approved Astrazeneca yet. They don't need to though, as they've got enough of the others.

Mostly they're giving people mRNA - Pfizer and Moderna, but a smaller number are getting Johnson and Johnson (which is similar to AZ but given as one shot).

Anti-vaxxers hound hundreds in queue for walk-in Covid jabs

What's wrong with them? It's one thing to refuse it for yourself, but they shouldn't be allowed to harrass and intimidate other people.

AZ might produce fewer antibodies against Delta than Pfizer and Moderna. But, it might be that we just need to give AZ more time. It takes longer to build protection.

Here's something about the mixing of vaccines, that I posted about earlier.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9749989/amp/Germany-recommends-mixing-Covid-vaccines-saying-gives-significantly-superior-immune-response.html

@Sanguinesuzy

DS2 age 14 has had it twice with a six month gap between. Although not particularly ill either time, he developed a nasty chest infection after the second episode and is currently on antibiotics. I've got long covid although recovering now. I'm dreading it all although knowing this government it probably will pay off. They seem to have 9 lives .

This has happened to me. Recovering from 2nd bout of Covid and picking up antibiotics tomorrow for chest infection. Praying I escape long Covid - I hope you and your son both feel much better soon. Herd immunity isn’t possible I think given one can catch it twice, and I am double jabbed so that doesn’t stop it. Makes it less bad though.

For those that are saying that the vaccines only last 6 months, there may be a decent chance that they may actually protect you for a long time using data from the sars outbreak in 2003.
We showed that patients who recovered from SARS (the disease associated with SARS-CoV infection) possess long-lasting memory T cells that are reactive to the N protein of SARS-CoV 17 years after the outbreak of SARS in 2003; these T cells displayed robust cross-reactivity to the N protein of SARS-CoV-2.

www.nature.com/articles/s41586-020-2550-z

So 17 years later, those who built up antibodies still have the T cells to fight the virus. Sure, the current strains may be very different but the spike protein remains it's Achilles heel.

What's wrong with them? It's one thing to refuse it for yourself, but they shouldn't be allowed to harrass and intimidate other people.

The question of vaccination has become swept up in the ongoing culture war in the UK

Mask wearing mainly to protects others, I will choose to wear my mask in shops and crowded indoor places. But as more people decide to ditch the mask it will become pointless to do this, it will not protect me so much, it will be like a smoking ‘area’ in a plane or restaurant. The smoke doesn’t stay in one place. We all need to wear a mask for it to be effective. It is such a simple action to take, Scotland has the right approach. I feel that England is just becoming a more risky place to live in.

Why is nobody talking about chromosome 12 ? Apparently 2% of Europeans inherited something from our Neanderthal ancestors which means that if you have it covid won't affect you at all. If that's true then that's an amazing breakthrough

@MrsIsobelCrawley

tigger1001 Fri 09-Jul-21 21:38:48

The rates in Scotland have been increasing for weeks and weeks now. Football etc hasn't helped but the rates were already increasing. The so called measures don't seem to be having an impact.

The data doesn't support what you claim.

That graph doesn't show the rates have been rising in Scotland for weeks? In may in my local authority area the levels of infection were less than 50 per 100 k. And had been on a downward track for a few weeks. Now are well over 400 per 100k. The are I work, was less than 20 per 100k, and is now over 900 per 100k. The rise started before the football.

Breaking down the figures further there are areas within local authorities which have infection rates of just under 1500 per 100k.

These are the highest the figures have been here.

No doubt football has made things worse, but it was on the rise before then.

Most people who continue to wear masks and SD I would guess are in the cohort that are already double vaccinated and take Covid far more seriously.

Those that won’t are probably in the younger cohort that either aren’t vaccinated yet or are more likely to refuse the vaccine that’s why letting it spread now and not in winter is the Tory’s plan…. It’ll give some immunity to those who haven’t yet/won’t get vaccinated.

That’s my theory anyway.

So 17 years later, those who built up antibodies still have the T cells to fight the virus. Sure, the current strains may be very different but the spike protein remains it's Achilles heel.

Actually if you look further into those studies you'll find the blood samples of subjects for the studies taken years before sars was discovered, and never previously exposed so Sars, were found to have t cell immunity. They think this is due to exposure to similar viruses. It is highly likely this is the reason so many people have no or very mild symptoms when infected with Sars Cov 2. Unfortunately all the research has focused on antibodies, however they are only one part of our complex immune systems. B cell and t cell reactivity needs much more research.

@MrsIsobelCrawley

tigger1001 Fri 09-Jul-21 21:38:48

The rates in Scotland have been increasing for weeks and weeks now. Football etc hasn't helped but the rates were already increasing. The so called measures don't seem to be having an impact.

The data doesn't support what you claim.

Hang on, the blue line(Scotland) is going down, but the red line (England) is going up! So the rates in Scotland are on the decline, but those in England are going steadily up!