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Original poster

What is going on?????

377 replies

Dustyboots · 08/07/2021 21:47

Sorry, I know there’ve been countless threads discussing this sort of thing. But so far all I can find are people arguing about masks and smoking ...

What is our government doing? What are they up to? I’ve just seen a tweet with a German news report that says the UK is conducting a mass Covid experiment.

Is our government trying to crash the NHS in order to dismantle it?

What are they up to?

OP posts:
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6
KOKOagainandagain · 09/07/2021 18:37

Sorry dusty - being imprecise. If you imagine the dominant virus infecting someone who was unvaccinated and someone who was partially vaccinated or was doubly vaccinated but had weak immune responses.

The virus would not need to mutate to replicate in an unvaccinated host. It's good to go. There is no pressure. But in a partially vaccinated host, may have to work a little harder and become more resilient to replicate. Because there is some more pressure, but not enough to prevent replication. When transmitted by the partially vaccinated the virus is stronger/mutated.

WarmAndFluff · 09/07/2021 18:43

I work as a scientist in a hospital microbiology lab. The first two waves were truly terrible. We had ambulances queuing to come into the hospital, and endless trolleys carrying bodies into the morgue.

This time we've had very few Covid patients even coming into hospital - I mean, a total in low double figures, when before we could count them in hundreds. The ones that do end up here are (from what our consultants have told us) mainly unvaccinated.

The link between hospital stays and deaths is even more tenuous, so far we've had, I think, 2 or 3 in the last couple of months due to better care and better treatments.

This wave is completely different. As others have said, we're never going to have no deaths, but this is manageable.

Also if you're not vaccinated - go and get vaccinated! How much proof do you want that they're safe, literally millions, if not billions, have had them now! Not doing it at this point just shows that it was never about proof, more about superstition. I really have no sympathy for those who could have been vaccinated but decided not to be (obviously very much more for those who can't and are still living in fear).

Watapalava · 09/07/2021 18:48

of course more deaths will be in vaccinated groups given almost every adult has been vaccinated. At some point soon 100% of deaths will be in the vaccinated groups but its the number of deaths and how many they've prevented that's important

I disagree completely that 71% want restrictions - i don't know a single person who plans to wear a mask after the 19th- not one.

no one outside of mumsnet wants restrictions to continue

and even on here its the same 4/5 people who clearly have some sort of health anxiety

Earlydancing · 09/07/2021 18:58

I hate wearing a mask and am ready to throw them away. But I know a few people who are concerned about going maskless and because of that I will carry on wearing a mask in certain situations. I want to keep everyone safe and I respect other people's feelings. (But I must confess, it will be nice not to have to wear it if I'm having a bad day.) I think a lot of people will feel like me.

KOKOagainandagain · 09/07/2021 19:03

The first two waves were truly terrible. We had ambulances queuing to come into the hospital, and endless trolleys carrying bodies into the morgue.

Which, maybe because it was suppressed, translates to the NHS coped. And can cope with 100,000 cases a day no problem.

ArseInTheCoOpWindow · 09/07/2021 19:06

The age cohort who are almost all fully vaccinated tend to vote Tory

I’m 57 and double dipped. Please remember that we were young adults under the horrendous Thatcher years. I don’t know anyone who voted Tory tbh. Scarred for life by Thatch.

Jhjhjh3 · 09/07/2021 19:11

Getting rid of mandatory masks makes sense to me. People wear them under their nose, touch them constantly, wear the same one for days or weeks on end, keep them in their pockets. There is probably a cure for COVID to be found on some masks. They give a false sense of both superiority and safety. I can’t wait to bin mine.

DownSideUpped · 09/07/2021 19:13

of course more deaths will be in vaccinated groups given almost every adult has been vaccinated. At some point soon 100% of deaths will be in the vaccinated groups but its the number of deaths and how many they've prevented that's important

Didn’t they say that the vaccines were 100% effective at preventing death though?! Not that I believe that, but in trials this meant that there were some deaths in unvaccinated cases but no deaths in vaccinated cases. Clearly in the real world this isn’t the case.

Coffeetwosugars · 09/07/2021 19:15

As much as i appreciate the fact that we are going to have to 'learn to live with covid', I think it's a really bad idea for us to just open up and continue like it doesn't exist. To me learning to live with something means that you may have to make some changes to your lifestyle and the way you do things. I am double jabbed and although I appreciate that means I am less likely to get seriously ill from it and spread it, there is always the chance that I could give it to someone who is vulnerable and who may get seriously ill from it. If continuing to wear a mask in busy indoor spaces reduces the chance of me giving it to someone who could die from it then i am happy to do that.
Also let's not forget that the more people that have it, the higher the chance of it mutating into something we cant manage and I really don't want another full lockdown.
Don't even get me started on the fact that we're not even sure exactly how long the vaccines effectiveness lasts.
For those who have managed to wear masks for the past year is it really gonna hurt to continue to wear one in busy enclosed places such as on public transport, in supermarkets or in hospitals? As for those moaning about track and trace, don't delete the app but perhaps take a lat flow test if you do get pinged before deciding whether or not to disregard it?
Apparently from the 19th it's all gonna be down to personally responsibility. At present I'm not holding out much hope. Sad

BoredZelda · 09/07/2021 19:16

a German news report that says the UK is conducting a mass Covid experiment.

It isn’t an experiment. An experiment is where you aren’t sure what the outcome will be. There is no doubt what the outcome of this policy will be.

NearlyAlwaysInsane · 09/07/2021 19:22

@BoredZelda

a German news report that says the UK is conducting a mass Covid experiment.

It isn’t an experiment. An experiment is where you aren’t sure what the outcome will be. There is no doubt what the outcome of this policy will be.

Do go on?

And then let me know where you buy your crystal balls.

nothingnobleaboutstalking · 09/07/2021 19:28

Adults = vaccination
Children = withhold the vaccination licensed for them, hope they catch covid and keep them confined to home so they don't spread it around too much. Shame about their schooling and life chances in the meantime (but no matter, what matters is pubs, restaurants, holidays, airplanes). Hope long covid is all in our heads and the kids won't be damaged for life.
Alternative would be actually offer vaccine to those children who want it, but something dodgy is going on in the JCVI and cabinet.

nothingnobleaboutstalking · 09/07/2021 19:32

When the UK develops its next variant to spread around the world, we will once again be moaning about why we can't go on holiday...
Never learn, worse than lab animals who at least prove they can learn from their mistakes.

If the UK is relying on vaccines, the very least they could do, the most obvious no-brainer, is to offer it to everyone for whom it has been approved, rather than leave millions unvaccinated 12-18 years old, most of whom do want to receive it.

TheTallOakTrees · 09/07/2021 19:37

@nothingnobleaboutstalking

When the UK develops its next variant to spread around the world, we will once again be moaning about why we can't go on holiday... Never learn, worse than lab animals who at least prove they can learn from their mistakes.

If the UK is relying on vaccines, the very least they could do, the most obvious no-brainer, is to offer it to everyone for whom it has been approved, rather than leave millions unvaccinated 12-18 years old, most of whom do want to receive it.

You are a right downer aren't you. Lab animals Hmm oh dear 😳
HadEnoughofOtherThreads · 09/07/2021 19:41

The Government is headed by an incompetent narcissist who is reported to have said ‘Let the bodies pile high’.

The UK economy is going to s**t, a former banker is now running the NHS and furlough needs to end.

The country definitely needs to open up more, but keep the mandatory mask wearing and social distancing in the obvious spaces.

Hold on tight people, as it’s clearly going to get a lot worse before it gets any better.
Unfortunately, common sense is not common. And no level of paid education will afford one common sense or empathy for others.

Creamsoda77 · 09/07/2021 19:44

Why are cases rising then if so many are vaccinated???

Tealightsandd · 09/07/2021 19:49

99.5% of deaths in America are in the unvaccinated.

Clearly vaccines work. In America.

The concern with the UK is whether we need to tweak or booster our vaccinations.
Here, we have some double jabbed still dying.

America mostly mRNA (Pfizer and Moderna), and on 3 week dosing gap.

We haven't been told which vaccine the double jabbed who died were given.

It's possible that those given AZ might need a mRNA booster jab.

Gwenhwyfar · 09/07/2021 19:57

@Creamsoda77

Why are cases rising then if so many are vaccinated???
Apparently the vaccine doesn't stop you getting it or transmitting it, only helps with severity. Not exactly what we were sold.
Tealightsandd · 09/07/2021 20:00

In America, where it's been mostly Pfizer and Moderna, cases are rising in the states with low vaccine take up.

Tealightsandd · 09/07/2021 20:02

Apparently the vaccine doesn't stop you getting it or transmitting it, only helps with severity. Not exactly what we were sold.

Vaccines stop (or significantly limit) transmission. At the point when majority of population has been fully vaccinated. We're not there yet.

DownSideUpped · 09/07/2021 20:04

Tealightsandd

99.5% of deaths in America are in the unvaccinated.

I read recently that in the US any deaths and/or cases in vaccinated people weren’t going to be reported...which, if true, would explain your stats. I’ll try to find the article.

HadEnoughofOtherThreads · 09/07/2021 20:06

Gwenhwyfar

Creamsoda77
‘Why are cases rising then if so many are vaccinated???’

Apparently the vaccine doesn't stop you getting it or transmitting it, only helps with severity. Not exactly what we were sold.

^This

And also likely to be due to the new previously unknown variants that the vaccines were not initially produced to suppress.
Eg. the latest Johnson (Delta) variant that have been welcomed into the UK like all the other Covid variants.

SeaShoreGalore · 09/07/2021 20:08

It’ll be fine.

BMW6 · 09/07/2021 20:12

But that's exactly what I remember Whitty et al saying though!

Vaccines would vastly reduce hospitalisation, death and serious illness from covid.

That's exactly what was promised and is what we are now seeing.

foxandbee · 09/07/2021 20:15

@ArseInTheCoOpWindow

The age cohort who are almost all fully vaccinated tend to vote Tory

I’m 57 and double dipped. Please remember that we were young adults under the horrendous Thatcher years. I don’t know anyone who voted Tory tbh. Scarred for life by Thatch.

Same age as you arse and same outlook. I would never vote Tory.