What is going on?????

[Dustyboots]

Sorry, I know there’ve been countless threads discussing this sort of thing. But so far all I can find are people arguing about masks and smoking ...

What is our government doing? What are they up to? I’ve just seen a tweet with a German news report that says the UK is conducting a mass Covid experiment.

Is our government trying to crash the NHS in order to dismantle it?

What are they up to?

They absolutely are lessening spread. Transmission is reduced. Why are people not hearing that?

90% of population vaccinated = herd immunity.

If and when that happens, then the virus has only very limited opportunity to spread (and mutate). So people don't catch and spread it in the first place.

In America 99.2% of double vaccinated aren't getting ill. The spread of Delta is being driven by the unvaccinated, and it's almost all unvaccinated in their hospitals.

(We might need to give mRNA boosters to AZ people in the UK at some point, but possibly we simply need time, since AZ takes longer to build up protection).

In London and other cities (England) we keep getting mobs not wearing masks or protesting about all limiting measures because of the damage to the economy and personal freedom.
Politics is the art of the possible.
The Government just cannot enforce the measures they have in Scotland.

StealthPolarBear

They absolutely are lessening spread. Transmission is reduced. Why are people not hearing that?

Lessening spread isn’t herd immunity. It’s lessening spread. Clearly not lessening spread in my area where many school years are in isolation because all their fully vaxxed teachers have covid. 😳

You said they're lessening severity but not stopping spread. They're not reducing spread to zero, granted but they're reducing it massively.

@DownSideUpped

Vaccines.

90% of population vaccinated = herd immunity.

But vaccines aren’t giving immunity. They are potentially lessening severity but not stopping spread. I know of many teachers currently very unwell with covid yet double jabbed. Where’s the herd immunity if fully vaxxed are catching and presumably spreading?

We might need to give AZ people mRNA (Pfizer or Moderna) booster.

In America, where people have mostly been given mRNA vaccines, the infections, hospitalisations, and deaths, are almost all in the unvaccinated.

It's a stroke of genius and we're going to be 'back to normal' long before anyone else, or it's absolutely reckless and is going to put us into a world of trouble. Time will tell!

AZ takes a lot longer to build protection. That method won't work as well in a "let it rip', no mitigation measures whatsoever setup.

StealthPolarBear

You said they're lessening severity but not stopping spread. They're not reducing spread to zero, granted but they're reducing it massively.

Still waiting for PHE to publish their latest figures, which they seem to be withholding.

Those who want masks and restricrions to continue.. How long for?

Covid isn't going anywhere irrespective of the vaccine programs success.

Mutations will continue to happen irrespective of what measures we take, as the past year has shown us.

Should we live with restrictions and wear masks indefinitely?

Yes, if with so many vaxxed, we have to open up at some point. Even if we try to wait for cases to dip, they will climb eventually so we'll be here anyway............the vaccine either works or it doesnt and, even before then, the fatality rate and average age of death weren't concerning anyway..........so...............

Tealightsandd
That’s interesting. Do you have a link to figures showing numbers of hospitalisations and deaths in the US and their vaccination status? I’m following the figures closely in the U.K. but haven’t looked at the US yet.

@Tealightsandd

What's going on, is the UK is going to 'let it rip', let the bodies pile up, let people die and become disabled.

The rest of the world is taking mitigation measures. Including masks.

Herd immunity doesn't happen unless and until majority (80-90%) are vaccinated. Catching it once doesn't stop you getting it again, particularly new strains.

The UK is dropping opening up with no mitigation measures when cases, hospitalisations (and, slowly but surely, deaths) are rising. The majority are not yet fully vaccinated, and vaccines aren't as effective against Delta (although still good).

The UK is creating high risk conditions for the development of a vaccine resistant strain.

^^ this

Covid isn't going anywhere irrespective of the vaccine programs success.

In America, almost all the infections, hospitalisations, and deaths are happening in the unvaccinated.

Mutations will continue to happen irrespective of what measures we take, as the past year has shown us.

The dangerous mutations have occurred in places with unmitigated spread. Because those are the conditions that allow a mutation to develop.

It’s an experiment for sure.

And it would be fine if no one left these shores for the duration of it.

But they won’t, we will spread delta to every corner of the world, and will kill a lot of people.

www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

@Itsprobablynotcominghome

It’s an experiment for sure.

And it would be fine if no one left these shores for the duration of it.

But they won’t, we will spread delta to every corner of the world, and will kill a lot of people.

Oh and we’ll sit on a stockpile of vaccines and give 3rd jabs before vast swathes of the world have had one.

“Are we the baddies?”

As I see it, people are being given back choice. Those that were not bothered or wearing masks before will carry on not wearing masks. Must sensible people will continue to wear them in crowded places. We all have a choice about whether we return to pubs and clubs etc and many will choose not to. I think we are doing right thing. Numbers are increasing yes but I work in a big trust and last I heard we had one Covid patient in ITU and they had not been vaccinated. However are wards are jam packed full of complex patients who have been stuck at home over a year, not getting the treatment they needed, not keeping up their mobility etc and they are then admitted very unwell and deconditioned generally. Not to mention the increase in Safeguarding cases, domestic abuse, mental health issues etc. There is no good solution here.

@DownSideUpped

www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/jul/08/fears-of-new-us-covid-surge-as-delta-spreads-and-many-remain-unvaccinated

99.2% of US Covid deaths in June were unvaccinated, says Fauci

The worldometers stats are interesting. UK ranks #9 in tests per million population but 44 in number of cases per mill. I have family & friends in several EU Countries where they only test when symptomatic, we seem to be one of the few "looking" for cases. This should help the make informed decisions about changing restrictions?

I will continue to wear a mask post 19th - my personal choice.

It could be coincidence, but taken together with the fact that more vaccinated are getting sick in the UK than in the US. It suggests that perhaps it might be a good idea to give AZ people a mRNA booster (when we have more supply).

@YellowandGreenToBeSeen

It’s - and this is a guess - because the country will be bankrupt beyond belief unless furlough really ends. And the only way to do that is to remove all restrictions and pretend All Is Well. Build it and they will come (even if it kills or disables them).

This. My friend works in govt comms. She's been saying for months now that all the projections they've seen show that the the economy is fucked. And obv plenty of backbenchers have been calling for months for restrictions to be significantly reduced. I'm not sure it's a good thing, but also not sure what to do for the best. I'll defo be wearing my mask and distancing in busy places for some time yet.

They are opening up for the summer to claim back some money for the economy and then they’ll lock it down in autumn/winter. Which is similar to what happened last year.

@Tealightsandd

Compliance is just gone.

Say something enough times in the hope it becomes reality...

Compliance is still high. The vast majority of the public want mitigation measures. 71% of the public, for example, want masks to stay after the 19th.

We've all had enough. But having enough doesn't make it go away. Ignoring the problem or pretending it no longer exists only serves to drag the situation out - and in fact, it makes matters worse (due to the risk of developing a vaccine resistant strain).

If this is the case then 71% of people will continue to live their lives as If restrictions are in place and theres no issue is there?? There's never been and never will be 100% compliance

But also AZ takes longer to build protection. So we might just need to give it more time. Which means mitigation measures (i.e. masks) in the meantime.