Feeling so low about this new world of vaccines

[blue12345]

Just wondering if anyone else is in the same boat as me? For many reasons, I've decided not to get the Covid vaccine. I' have all my vaccines and all my kids are vaccinated. I state this to show I'm not an anti-vaxxer, although I increasingly feel like one.

I'm feeling very isolated from my friends and family as a result of this. Everyone I meet asks me am I booked in yet, am I double-vaccinated. I don't bother getting into conversations about it , but it still causes me anxiety and has led to friction. A very close friend has asked me a few times have I got an appointment for my vaccine yet and I've tried to brush her off, as I think she will be unlikely to want to spend time around me after she finds out I'm not getting it. I've also found that lots of friends have cut back on their contact with me.

I am very comfortable with my decision, but I'm just so sad that we now live in a world where the segregation of vaccinated and unvaccinated people is allowed, in both interpersonal relations and also looking more and more likely that services like restaurants and travel will be similarly restricted.

@bumbleymummy And furthermore, in the vast majority of cases, you don’t owe them an explanation either. In your very closest relationships, you should probably try, even though you may eventually reach the point of deciding there’s no point.

But, to repeat for the nth time, Covid is not the flu and cannot be compared to it.

I’m not saying it is flu. I’m saying that flu also puts vulnerable people at risk but people don’t tend to care about that.

If you’re not getting the vaccine how can you know with certainty why others do?

Well based on a lot of threads here, many younger/low risk people are saying that they didn’t really want to get it but they did because they were worried they wouldn’t be able to go to bars restaurants/on holiday or because they’re worried about getting ill/long covid.

@Holdingontonothing

I'm going to take exception to this statement *@bumbleymummy* - I'm not "afraid" of Covid, but like any sensible person, I don't want to get ill and at best lose earnings, or at worst, face something more serious like long covid. That's not fear, its sensible, measured appraisal of the situation. I also don't want to risk passing it on to vulnerable relatives, friends or anyone else in my community where it could have serious consequences for them (either health, financial, or psychological).

As a family, we're not looking to go away on holiday abroad either, so no, getting vaccinated isn't that either.

Fact is, I and most decent people in this country have a sense of collective social responsibility, and are getting vaccinated to help slow down and eventually get this thing under control. It's not out of some self serving motivation that you try and frame it as.

Yep bumble mummy doesn’t get to say why people have had the jab.. just shows the arrogance, repeatedly

@singingstones

Although since you mention it, this post by you is an example of not accepting someone's altruistic motives.

*I got the vaccine to protect other people first and foremost.
*
🏅Here you go dear. Is this what you were looking for?

Exactly.. simply cannot accept anyone else’s motives. So narrow minded

I’m with @Bovrilly on this, especially

You see it fairly often on here, people not understanding altruistic motives and thinking they can't be true. I wasn't even talking about vaccination in particular, there are arguments on threads about education and politics that show the same thing.

I have noticed this in face to face interactions as well. There’s often a deficit of empathy and understanding.

@sleepwouldbenice Sure, I’m narrow minded, selfish, stupid, uneducated, a conspiracy theorist, anti-vaxx etc etc but posting a medal for someone is just such a mean thing to say to someone

I think Covid has had such an impact that people will make little changes this winter - more hand washing, maybe mask wearing for a cold if in public, larger uptake of flu jab (not sure how much protection there will be this year though). Employers will encourage more measures - to protect output as much as anything.
We have a much broader awareness of public health so I'm hoping there will be a trickle effect.

And people can have the jab for personal protection AND altruistic reasons it's not either or.

[quote bumbleymummy]@sleepwouldbenice Sure, I’m narrow minded, selfish, stupid, uneducated, a conspiracy theorist, anti-vaxx etc etc but posting a medal for someone is just such a mean thing to say to someone [/quote]
You’ve demonstrated exactly what people are meaning by your response. You simply don’t get it do you?

As much as people claim that they’re doing this for altruistic reasons, they’ve mainly done it because they’re either afraid of COVID themselves (but maybe don’t want to admit it) or they want to be able to do something like going on holiday. So it’s really the personal benefit that they’re thinking about, not other people.

Exhibit A

posting a medal for someone is just such a mean thing to say to someone

Not judging the meanness of it, just pointing out that it shows you don't accept or believe that people have altruistic reasons. You've made that even clearer since. I guess people are wondering why you can't accept that and maybe thinking it's because for some people altruism is an incomprehensible concept and must therefore be fictitious.

But, to repeat for the nth time, Covid is not the flu and cannot be compared to it

I’m not saying it is flu. I’m saying that flu also puts vulnerable people at risk but people don’t tend to care about that

The difference between flu and Covid is flu affects all vulnerable people whilst Covid affects only some vulnerable people and healthy people who have certain genetics. I don’t think saying that all clinically vulnerable people are at risk is quite correct.

Dh and mil would be in the extremely clinically vulnerable group and when they contracted it they breezed through it like it was a 24 hour sniffles. Whilst myself and dc (teens) were bedridden for days. I was 2 weeks in and ended up at the out of hours doctor before I started to recover.

I see it with friend’s families. You can see the genetic connection as some relatives breeze through it whilst others are incredibly unwell.

I think if we are supposed to live with this for many years to come I think research should be turned to which part of our dna governs how bad we get Covid and maybe there lies the answer for a cure.

I just am baffled how many of you think it's ok to just cut contact with a friend based on one viewpoint, having never given them other reasons to doubt me before.

Because your viewpoint could bring me and my family harm (I am asthmatic and in my 3rd trimester, DC1 also badly asthmatic) It has potentially very harmful consequences for us. It's not like you're saying 'I'm not eating meat anymore' or 'I refuse to travel to X country because of their human rights record'.

As your friend, I would full respect your right not to have the vaccine but I would still have to make the decision that was right for my family, however long standing our friendship.

off subject, but I am really curious as to what these two medical procedures are @MrsSkylerWhite?

I can't think of any medical procedures I'd find offensive if someone chose to have to it done.

FGM on a female relative yes of course, but that's the closest I can think of and isn't what you're referring to!“

As I said, personal reasons. I am really curious as to why you don’t consider FGM to be a medical procedure or why you are so certain that isn’t what I’m referring to?

People’s beliefs reveal much about who they are. It’s not bizarre to decide that they’re not the friend for you based on that assessment, surely?

[quote bumbleymummy]@sleepwouldbenice Sure, I’m narrow minded, selfish, stupid, uneducated, a conspiracy theorist, anti-vaxx etc etc but posting a medal for someone is just such a mean thing to say to someone [/quote]
Well done.
You’re nearly getting there

I don't think there is a "this or that" when it comes to motivation for getting the vaccines, as it is a combination of both selfish and altruistic reasons. The most common reason is;

"I just want out of this mess and for life to go back to normal" - yes they want life back to normal for them so they can go on holidays, to events and bars etc. But in turn that also means life goes back to normal for others, therefore contributing to the greater good.

However, those who decline the vaccine, there is no altruistic flip side. They refused the vaccine on the basis they don't want it, and in turns contribute nothing to the greater good, sponge of the actions of others and contribute to a risk of further spread, mutations and lock downs.

(Those who have medical reasons not to have it are the exceptions)

However, those who decline the vaccine, there is no altruistic flip side.

You've forgotten the classic "ACTUALLY people refusing the vaccine are the ones doing A Good Thing because their dose will be used in a poor country" 😂😂

*spoiler alert: it won't

@blue12345

By any chance have you tried testing for antibodies which you can easily get online. You can easily get them from Superdrug, Lloyds and testing for all.com.

For travel most European countries require either proof of vaccination, positive antibody results or negative pcr in and out. These countries view having a positive antibody test as equivalent to the vaccine although I get your point that the UK and most responses on this post are more medieval in the view of vaccination over antibodies.

I don't fully understand the prejudice against those refusing the vaccine as ultimately if you do get Covid and become ill then that was your decision whilst those espousing the benefits of the vaccine would be OK.

But I get guess prejudice and discrimination go hand in hand with pandemics and at least it is an improvement on the persecution of Jewish people during the Black Death.

But I get guess prejudice and discrimination go hand in hand with pandemics and at least it is an improvement on the persecution of Jewish people during the Black Death.

You're comparing someone being challenged about their decision to refuse vaccination to thousands of Jewish people being massacred?

The reason other countries have relaxed restrictions is because delta hasn’t reached them yet, in anywhere near the same numbers as us. If we only had the Kent variant with less transmission rates then it wouldn’t matter so much if people choose not to be vaccinated. People could protect themselves by having the vaccine. This isn’t so much the case for delta.
Vaccines reduce transmission of delta by 60%, so still significant, but we need maximum people vaccinated to reduce the number of hosts for the virus and to lesson the risk of mutation.

Isolation and segregation occurs now as a result of disabilities, poverty and health inequalities- that's where we should focus our energies, not armchair vaccination experts whose friends might see less of them. (And no I don't agree with name calling).

@MrsSkylerWhite

off subject, but I am really curious as to what these two medical procedures are *@MrsSkylerWhite*?

I can't think of any medical procedures I'd find offensive if someone chose to have to it done.

FGM on a female relative yes of course, but that's the closest I can think of and isn't what you're referring to!“

As I said, personal reasons. I am really curious as to why you don’t consider FGM to be a medical procedure or why you are so certain that isn’t what I’m referring to?

People’s beliefs reveal much about who they are. It’s not bizarre to decide that they’re not the friend for you based on that assessment, surely?

eh @MrsSkylerWhite?

you said there were two medical procedures you would find offensive if someone chose to have them done

I asked out of curiosity what these two were as I can't imagine what they'd be. Of course you're not obliged to answer but I don't get why you wouldn't?

As I said in my original post, FGM on a female relative can't be what you're referring to, as you were specifically talking something an individual chooses to do. (And it isn't a medical procedure, it's child abuse).

@singingstones

But I get guess prejudice and discrimination go hand in hand with pandemics and at least it is an improvement on the persecution of Jewish people during the Black Death.

You're comparing someone being challenged about their decision to refuse vaccination to thousands of Jewish people being massacred?

ah yes the yellow star brigade

Many Jewish bodies have asked people to stop comparing aspects of the pandemic & vaccination to the holocaust as it's grossly offensive

One of the other reasons could be abortion?

@PrimeraVez

I just am baffled how many of you think it's ok to just cut contact with a friend based on one viewpoint, having never given them other reasons to doubt me before.

Because your viewpoint could bring me and my family harm (I am asthmatic and in my 3rd trimester, DC1 also badly asthmatic) It has potentially very harmful consequences for us. It's not like you're saying 'I'm not eating meat anymore' or 'I refuse to travel to X country because of their human rights record'.

As your friend, I would full respect your right not to have the vaccine but I would still have to make the decision that was right for my family, however long standing our friendship.

Yes, if someone cannot put themselves in your shoes and understand your concerns, they lack empathy.

@Twoforthree

One of the other reasons could be abortion?

d'oh I am so slow this weekend, I was genuinely really perplexed

yes of course, abortion and maybe sterilisation would make sense