Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Covid

Mumsnet doesn't verify the qualifications of users. If you have medical concerns, please consult a healthcare professional.

Original poster

Feeling so low about this new world of vaccines

999 replies

blue12345 · 07/07/2021 21:36

Just wondering if anyone else is in the same boat as me? For many reasons, I've decided not to get the Covid vaccine. I' have all my vaccines and all my kids are vaccinated. I state this to show I'm not an anti-vaxxer, although I increasingly feel like one.

I'm feeling very isolated from my friends and family as a result of this. Everyone I meet asks me am I booked in yet, am I double-vaccinated. I don't bother getting into conversations about it , but it still causes me anxiety and has led to friction. A very close friend has asked me a few times have I got an appointment for my vaccine yet and I've tried to brush her off, as I think she will be unlikely to want to spend time around me after she finds out I'm not getting it. I've also found that lots of friends have cut back on their contact with me.

I am very comfortable with my decision, but I'm just so sad that we now live in a world where the segregation of vaccinated and unvaccinated people is allowed, in both interpersonal relations and also looking more and more likely that services like restaurants and travel will be similarly restricted.

OP posts:
speckledostrichegg · 10/07/2021 13:31

@MareofBeasttown

Well said, *@speckledostrichegg*. Really have to laugh at how this thread has evolved into "Low risk ppl who take the vaccine in the UK are selfish, but vaccine refusers are selfless saints who are working hard to ensuring a poor man in Gorakphur, India gets the vaccine." Pull the other one!
Agh I know @MarshaBradyo

If people don't want to take up the vaccine then that's their decision and fair enough. But the endless twisting and manipulation of trying to justify it is insane!

MareofBeasttown · 10/07/2021 13:35

Also who gets to decide who is low risk? My 94 yr old gran survived Covid last year before the vaccine. Meanwhile DD's healthy 20 yr old friend is very ill with it and had to be hospitalised for a few days.

bumbleymummy · 10/07/2021 14:04

@MarshaBradyo some countries have eased their restrictions despite having not even vaccinated all the vulnerable. We have one of the most vaccinated populations in the world and yet people keep clamouring for restrictions to be kept until we vaccinate even more.

bumbleymummy · 10/07/2021 14:10

@MareofBeasttown

Well said, *@speckledostrichegg*. Really have to laugh at how this thread has evolved into "Low risk ppl who take the vaccine in the UK are selfish, but vaccine refusers are selfless saints who are working hard to ensuring a poor man in Gorakphur, India gets the vaccine." Pull the other one!
Well, I can laugh at people trying to claim some kind of moral superiority for taking a vaccine they don’t actually need while vulnerable people go without - but as I said before, each to their own.

@speckledostrichegg experts in other countries have supported easing restrictions earlier than we did despite lower vaccination coverage. You will also find experts in the U.K. who thought we should have been able to ease restrictions sooner given our vaccine uptake. There is not the blanket consensus on opinion that you are making out.

bumbleymummy · 10/07/2021 14:11

@MareofBeasttown

Also who gets to decide who is low risk? My 94 yr old gran survived Covid last year before the vaccine. Meanwhile DD's healthy 20 yr old friend is very ill with it and had to be hospitalised for a few days.
The JCVI. They prioritised groups based on the data that showed which people were most at risk of death/hospitalisation.
MarshaBradyo · 10/07/2021 14:11

[quote bumbleymummy]@MarshaBradyo some countries have eased their restrictions despite having not even vaccinated all the vulnerable. We have one of the most vaccinated populations in the world and yet people keep clamouring for restrictions to be kept until we vaccinate even more.[/quote]
No clamouring here. The opposite

Which countries are you thinking of specifically?

speckledostrichegg · 10/07/2021 14:20

@bumbleymummy

speckledostrichegg experts in other countries have supported easing restrictions earlier than we did despite lower vaccination coverage. You will also find experts in the U.K. who thought we should have been able to ease restrictions sooner given our vaccine uptake. There is not the blanket consensus on opinion that you are making out.

And so it goes round and round. I have explained twice why blanket policies don't make any sense, and instead are context dependent for each country.

I've detailed why the UK situation requires greater vaccination coverage and some explanations as to why we're in this situation. You've chosen to conveniently ignore these points though.

You don't want mass vaccination and you don't want COVID suppression policies, so it just comes back to this idea that you greatly underestimate the impact and consequences of coronavirus and this is why you hold these views.

MareofBeasttown · 10/07/2021 14:35

Yeah well as an Indian I find OP's sanctimony in claiming to care about India patronising in the extreme. I would love to see some proof of this You must think we are all very stupid. You are free to refuse the vaccine. But find a more convincing reason. Health anxiety will do.

bumbleymummy · 10/07/2021 14:37

I’ve detailed why the UK situation requires greater vaccination coverage and some explanations as to why we're in this situation.

I think you just stated it. Did you actually explain why you think we’re in a worse situation than other countries despite our higher vaccination coverage? Where?

I have no problem with the mass vaccination of vulnerable groups. I do have a problem with the idea that we need to vaccinate everyone and that anyone who doesn’t vaccinate is selfish and/or should be avoided at all costs.

MarshaBradyo · 10/07/2021 14:47

@bumbleymummy

I’ve detailed why the UK situation requires greater vaccination coverage and some explanations as to why we're in this situation.

I think you just stated it. Did you actually explain why you think we’re in a worse situation than other countries despite our higher vaccination coverage? Where?

I have no problem with the mass vaccination of vulnerable groups. I do have a problem with the idea that we need to vaccinate everyone and that anyone who doesn’t vaccinate is selfish and/or should be avoided at all costs.

This is a different argument to the one you keep making. Re only needing to vaccinate vulnerable to not have restrictions- this isn’t correct.
bumbleymummy · 10/07/2021 14:51

@MarshaBradyo well, which restrictions do you want to look at? When indoor dining was allowed? When nightclubs were allowed to open? When drinking time curfews were lifted? They’ve varied from country to country across Europe but none of them had the same number vaccinated as we did.

roguetomato · 10/07/2021 14:52

"I have no problem with the mass vaccination of vulnerable groups."

Of course you don't, it doesn't affect you. And you can keep saying they are protected so you don't.
You never answer anyone's question as to how we get out this pandemic without mass vaccination of majority to get herd immunity. Even after some people who actually got covid and recovered said they got no immunity from actual illness.

I would really like people saying we don't need to vaccinate everyone possible, to come up with better idea.

MarshaBradyo · 10/07/2021 14:53

[quote bumbleymummy]@MarshaBradyo well, which restrictions do you want to look at? When indoor dining was allowed? When nightclubs were allowed to open? When drinking time curfews were lifted? They’ve varied from country to country across Europe but none of them had the same number vaccinated as we did.[/quote]
Whatever you like to prove the point you are trying to make.

Outline what they have in place, how many vaccinated and how many cases

bumbleymummy · 10/07/2021 14:55

Well I know that you don’t agree with my position on whether or not restrictions can be lifted @MarshaBradyo but I’m not sure why you think it’s a different argument. Not thinking everyone needs to be vaccinated does not mean that I completely disagree with mass vaccination for the priority groups. (And anyone else who wants it, ethics aside. But want and need are different things.)

MarshaBradyo · 10/07/2021 14:55

And doubling rate / delta proportion

All will impact on when restrictions were lifted

anon12345678901 · 10/07/2021 15:00

@bumbleymummy

Why are you asking me that? I haven’t said we need to limit them only to the vulnerable. Just that vaccinating everyone else isn’t necessary to lift restrictions given that we’ve double vaxxed the people who were most likely to put pressure on the hospitals. (And yes, some people disagree with me on this)

I think there are plenty of countries that won’t be vaccinating every adult seeing as some of them can’t even vaccinate their vulnerable yet. And yet petrified parents in the U.K. are clamouring to vaccinate their incredibly low risk children next. It’s quite sickening tbh.

What do other countries vaccine rates matter? They can't just hop on over here to get vaccinated. If we have vaccines why shouldn't young adults / children get them? Please don't try and say that's the reason you won't get vaccinated, rather than you just don't want to.
bumbleymummy · 10/07/2021 15:00

@roguetomato I’ve answered it at least twice on this thread alone.

Look at most of the countries in Europe or the states in the US and you’ll find that they have similar or fewer restrictions than us despite having lower vaccination coverage, particularly in the most at risk groups. So clearly easing restrictions wasn’t conditional on having everyone vaccinated.

speckledostrichegg · 10/07/2021 15:06

[quote bumbleymummy]@roguetomato I’ve answered it at least twice on this thread alone.

Look at most of the countries in Europe or the states in the US and you’ll find that they have similar or fewer restrictions than us despite having lower vaccination coverage, particularly in the most at risk groups. So clearly easing restrictions wasn’t conditional on having everyone vaccinated.[/quote]
and you haven't responded to any posters explaining the UK is not in a comparable situation

stopping mass vaccination at just vulnerable groups and removing all restrictions makes absolutely no sense given the current situation

bumbleymummy · 10/07/2021 15:08

@anon12345678901

The World Health Organization’s director-general, Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus -

“In January, I spoke about the potential unfolding of a moral catastrophe,” he told a press conference. “Unfortunately, we’re now witnessing this play out. In a handful of rich countries, which bought up the majority of the supply, lower-risk groups are now being vaccinated.

“I understand why some countries want to vaccinate their children and adolescents, but right now I urge them to reconsider and to instead donate vaccines to Covax.”

“Because in low- and lower-middle-income countries, Covid-19 vaccine supply has not been enough to even immunise healthcare workers, and hospitals are being inundated with people that need lifesaving care urgently.”

bumbleymummy · 10/07/2021 15:09

stopping mass vaccination at just vulnerable groups and removing all restrictions makes absolutely no sense given the current situation

We’re well beyond vaccinating the most vulnerable groups and some people (you included i think?) still don’t think we should remove restrictions.

HerrenaHarridan · 10/07/2021 15:12

It’s all been said but here’s my tuppence anyway... no one has to spend time with you.

That’s a choice they get to make based on all kinds of factors.

Personally I am enjoying filtering the unvaccinated out of my life

I am a big believer in pro social behaviour and I prioritise other people who feel the same

I have friends who cannot receive the vaccine as they are too vulnerable even for that (complex health conditions and meds)

I am happy to take the (infinitesimally small) risk on their behalf.
In fact I have prioritised spending time (outdoors AND masked AND vaccinated) with these people who have been the loneliest for the longest.

mRNA vaccines are a mind blowing technology. I have followed their development for nearly ten years.

We are so lucky to have the greatest minds of our generation working away to develop vaccines that people of the 1600s would have sacrificed their first borns for

Endofether · 10/07/2021 15:22

@HerrenaHarridan

It’s all been said but here’s my tuppence anyway... no one has to spend time with you.

That’s a choice they get to make based on all kinds of factors.

Personally I am enjoying filtering the unvaccinated out of my life

I am a big believer in pro social behaviour and I prioritise other people who feel the same

I have friends who cannot receive the vaccine as they are too vulnerable even for that (complex health conditions and meds)

I am happy to take the (infinitesimally small) risk on their behalf.
In fact I have prioritised spending time (outdoors AND masked AND vaccinated) with these people who have been the loneliest for the longest.

mRNA vaccines are a mind blowing technology. I have followed their development for nearly ten years.

We are so lucky to have the greatest minds of our generation working away to develop vaccines that people of the 1600s would have sacrificed their first borns for

This really makes sense , would for eg people who don’t take the jab up question being offered a new cancer treatment?
bumbleymummy · 10/07/2021 15:32

@Endofether Taking a vaccine for a virus that you are at low risk from (and may have already had) has a very different risk-benefit to taking a vaccine as treatment for a cancer that has a high likelihood of killing you if you don’t.

DontDrinkDontSmokeWhatDoIDo · 10/07/2021 15:33

@topcat2014

I would find it hard to understand someone un vaccinated.

You have the right to do so, of course, but don't expect others to 'understand'.

You would fall into the vegan, woo woo, fruit loop category for me.

I wish you the best though.

I'm just reading the thread now, so apologies if this has already got pages of 😳😳😳😳😳

But @topcat2014 - that's so puzzling - how did this comparison even arise????

FflosFfantastig · 10/07/2021 15:41

I wondered that too Confused
The vegan thing...