Feeling so low about this new world of vaccines

[blue12345]

Just wondering if anyone else is in the same boat as me? For many reasons, I've decided not to get the Covid vaccine. I' have all my vaccines and all my kids are vaccinated. I state this to show I'm not an anti-vaxxer, although I increasingly feel like one.

I'm feeling very isolated from my friends and family as a result of this. Everyone I meet asks me am I booked in yet, am I double-vaccinated. I don't bother getting into conversations about it , but it still causes me anxiety and has led to friction. A very close friend has asked me a few times have I got an appointment for my vaccine yet and I've tried to brush her off, as I think she will be unlikely to want to spend time around me after she finds out I'm not getting it. I've also found that lots of friends have cut back on their contact with me.

I am very comfortable with my decision, but I'm just so sad that we now live in a world where the segregation of vaccinated and unvaccinated people is allowed, in both interpersonal relations and also looking more and more likely that services like restaurants and travel will be similarly restricted.

If we vaccinate the vulnerable groups that accounted for the vast majority of hospitalisations then we don’t need restrictions to keep hospital levels manageable.

This isn’t a given at all, though you won’t engage with that point I notice. You just keep trotting your assumption out.

It’s particularly not a given of large numbers of non vulnerable don’t get vaxxed. Some of them will require hospitalisation.

And no not clinging to any restrictions.

The opposite. That is what is frustrating about this for most we actually want to drop all of them.

And your lone line of thought going against everyone else looking at data in countries doesn’t get us closer.

@MarshaBradyo how can you say other countries haven’t done this? Most have prioritised their vulnerable groups in order to maximise the reduction in hospitalisations/deaths. Yes, they’re continuing on with vaccinating other groups too but other countries, like the us, reduced a lot more of their restrictions well before we have so clearly easing restrictions wasn’t dependent on vaccinating young healthy people.

Yes @TheKeatingFive some will. Just like some people end up in hospital with flu every year but we don’t shut the country down and impose restrictions on everyone.

Just like some people end up in hospital with flu every year but we don’t shut the country down and impose restrictions on everyone.

We know we can (just about) manage the stress the vulnerable getting flu puts on the health service.

We don’t know we can manage the ‘some’ getting serious Covid on top of this. That’s the problem.

[quote bumbleymummy]@MarshaBradyo how can you say other countries haven’t done this? Most have prioritised their vulnerable groups in order to maximise the reduction in hospitalisations/deaths. Yes, they’re continuing on with vaccinating other groups too but other countries, like the us, reduced a lot more of their restrictions well before we have so clearly easing restrictions wasn’t dependent on vaccinating young healthy people.

Yes @TheKeatingFive some will. Just like some people end up in hospital with flu every year but we don’t shut the country down and impose restrictions on everyone.[/quote]
Yes of course they did those groups first why would you think I’m saying they shouldn’t have. None have stopped though after vulnerable as you want.

It’s not all or nothing with restrictions is it? It’s a sliding scale. After vulnerable are vaccinated a large amount are lifted, as they were here, then to get us back to fully functioning we offer to all adults.

No one has chosen your option which is to stop vaccinating after vulnerable groups and lift all restrictions.

I think that the fact most of the population have opted to be vaccinated has saved us.

None have stopped though after vulnerable as you want.

Ok, I think you’re misunderstanding me. I’m not saying we should ‘stop’. I just don’t think easing restrictions is or should be conditional on vaccinating low risk people. Do you have evidence that other countries haven’t eased their restrictions until all their young/healthy are vaccinated? From what I can see most countries have eased their restrictions much sooner than us despite having much lower vaccination coverage.

Israel eased theirs for 2 weeks, then reintroduced them again.

@Justgettingbye

I think that the fact most of the population have opted to be vaccinated has saved us.

Yes, the uptake in the vulnerable groups has been very high which has greatly reduced the numbers needing hospital care.

@bumbleymummy

None have stopped though after vulnerable as you want.

Ok, I think you’re misunderstanding me. I’m not saying we should ‘stop’. I just don’t think easing restrictions is or should be conditional on vaccinating low risk people. Do you have evidence that other countries haven’t eased their restrictions until all their young/healthy are vaccinated? From what I can see most countries have eased their restrictions much sooner than us despite having much lower vaccination coverage.

It is context dependent and it's not a blanket decision

The current situation in the UK means that vaccinating a higher proportion of people is going to be critical in terms of keeping coronavirus at manageable levels here.

@bumbleymummy

None have stopped though after vulnerable as you want.

Ok, I think you’re misunderstanding me. I’m not saying we should ‘stop’. I just don’t think easing restrictions is or should be conditional on vaccinating low risk people. Do you have evidence that other countries haven’t eased their restrictions until all their young/healthy are vaccinated? From what I can see most countries have eased their restrictions much sooner than us despite having much lower vaccination coverage.

Eased or ended?

Also you need to take into account cases in those countries v U.K..

We’ve eased them as other countries have.

Which country has ended all restrictions?

@MrsSkylerWhite

XenoBitch

Considering people who don't want this vaccine get labelled as stupid and uneducated, how on earth do you expect them to have an answer for this?”

Or perhaps some label people who don’t want this vaccine as stupid and uneducated because they seem unable to offer an answer for this.

Some people really are interested in hearing what you believe is a workable alternative(s). Please, what do you believe it is/they are?

Me not having the vaccine does not mean I have answers for what should be done.

@blue12345

Just wondering if anyone else is in the same boat as me? For many reasons, I've decided not to get the Covid vaccine. I' have all my vaccines and all my kids are vaccinated. I state this to show I'm not an anti-vaxxer, although I increasingly feel like one.

I'm feeling very isolated from my friends and family as a result of this. Everyone I meet asks me am I booked in yet, am I double-vaccinated. I don't bother getting into conversations about it , but it still causes me anxiety and has led to friction. A very close friend has asked me a few times have I got an appointment for my vaccine yet and I've tried to brush her off, as I think she will be unlikely to want to spend time around me after she finds out I'm not getting it. I've also found that lots of friends have cut back on their contact with me.

I am very comfortable with my decision, but I'm just so sad that we now live in a world where the segregation of vaccinated and unvaccinated people is allowed, in both interpersonal relations and also looking more and more likely that services like restaurants and travel will be similarly restricted.

OP it's segregated to keep people as safe as possible, because we protect others as much as ourselves by having the vaccine. So it's fine that you chose, as is your right in a democracy, not to have it, but part of that choice includes accepting that you will be a greater danger to others, hence your access to many high-density locations is very limited. If you decide to limit your danger to others by being vaccinated, you can then restore your full access. It's a self imposed limitation that you are placing on yourself.

The current situation in the UK means that vaccinating a higher proportion of people is going to be critical in terms of keeping coronavirus at manageable levels here.

But not in other countries? Why?

@XenoBitch

Can you see why people might find that position a bit frustrating?

The difficulty is that the only solution available to us at the moment is mass vaccination. When people say "I don't want to play a part in the solution that is available but neither do I have any suggestions for any alternative solution" it does make people feel a bit as though they are "carrying" others if that makes sense.

If people feel a situation is unjust or unbalanced they will have an emotional response to that feeling of injustice. I think that's just human nature to be honest.

@bumbleymummy

The current situation in the UK means that vaccinating a higher proportion of people is going to be critical in terms of keeping coronavirus at manageable levels here.

But not in other countries? Why?

Which other countries are limiting vaccines only to the vulnerable? I am not aware of any country that doesn't plan to vaccinate every adult.

@bumbleymummy

The current situation in the UK means that vaccinating a higher proportion of people is going to be critical in terms of keeping coronavirus at manageable levels here.

But not in other countries? Why?

I don't even know why I'm replying to this but as stated by our health secretary, we are predicted to have 100,000 cases per day by summer. This is not a good thing.

The UK has lots of natural disadvantages (it's a travel hub, population density, climate) alongside the mismanagement of coronavirus by the government. Delta is now the dominant strain which is almost impossible to contain. We're now in a period of exponential growth. There are lots of factors that mean that here we're currently in a really problematic situation, and the more people we can vaccinate the better.

Why are you asking me that? I haven’t said we need to limit them only to the vulnerable. Just that vaccinating everyone else isn’t necessary to lift restrictions given that we’ve double vaxxed the people who were most likely to put pressure on the hospitals. (And yes, some people disagree with me on this)

I think there are plenty of countries that won’t be vaccinating every adult seeing as some of them can’t even vaccinate their vulnerable yet. And yet petrified parents in the U.K. are clamouring to vaccinate their incredibly low risk children next. It’s quite sickening tbh.

@bumbleymummy

Why are you asking me that? I haven’t said we need to limit them only to the vulnerable. Just that vaccinating everyone else isn’t necessary to lift restrictions given that we’ve double vaxxed the people who were most likely to put pressure on the hospitals. (And yes, some people disagree with me on this)

I think there are plenty of countries that won’t be vaccinating every adult seeing as some of them can’t even vaccinate their vulnerable yet. And yet petrified parents in the U.K. are clamouring to vaccinate their incredibly low risk children next. It’s quite sickening tbh.

Enough with the hyperbole

Restrictions have eased here and due to end soon

As have other countries eased theirs and won’t end them only when vulnerable are vaccinated - name one?

You really do have a blind spot on this.

I don't even know why I'm replying to this but as stated by our health secretary, we are predicted to have 100,000 cases per day by summer. This is not a good thing.

And nowhere else is?

As for children direct your ire at the countries you think are doing so well, already offering to 12 plus

Enough there to make you ‘feel sick’

@bumbleymummy

Why are you asking me that? I haven’t said we need to limit them only to the vulnerable. Just that vaccinating everyone else isn’t necessary to lift restrictions given that we’ve double vaxxed the people who were most likely to put pressure on the hospitals. (And yes, some people disagree with me on this)

I think there are plenty of countries that won’t be vaccinating every adult seeing as some of them can’t even vaccinate their vulnerable yet. And yet petrified parents in the U.K. are clamouring to vaccinate their incredibly low risk children next. It’s quite sickening tbh.

And yet petrified parents in the U.K. are clamouring to vaccinate their incredibly low risk children next. It’s quite sickening tbh.

Nice use of emotive language here. In the UK, the rate of growth means that children will be exposed to coronavirus. Given that there is mounting evidence regarding long term complications like T1DM and long COVID (of which the risk does not correlate with how severe the initial symptoms were), I can understand why parents would like to take up a safe, effective vaccine for their kids.

Just that vaccinating everyone else isn’t necessary to lift restrictions given that we’ve double vaxxed the people who were most likely to put pressure on the hospitals. (And yes, some people disagree with me on this)
Pretty much all experts disagree with you. Why do you think you have insight that the top epidemiologists and economists don't?

I think there are plenty of countries that won’t be vaccinating every adult seeing as some of them can’t even vaccinate their vulnerable yet.
As has been said repeatedly, but you've ignored, many countries cannot make use of the mRNA vaccines due to the infrastructure required. Far better for the UK to prioritise tweaking and producing AZ so it can be shared with these countries. Letting CV get out of control here, exporting new variants which have the potential to completely negate the benefit of existing vaccine roll outs in other countries, helps no-one.

@bumbleymummy

Why are you asking me that? I haven’t said we need to limit them only to the vulnerable. Just that vaccinating everyone else isn’t necessary to lift restrictions given that we’ve double vaxxed the people who were most likely to put pressure on the hospitals. (And yes, some people disagree with me on this)

I think there are plenty of countries that won’t be vaccinating every adult seeing as some of them can’t even vaccinate their vulnerable yet. And yet petrified parents in the U.K. are clamouring to vaccinate their incredibly low risk children next. It’s quite sickening tbh.

Well there may be countries that are unable to vaccinate all adults because they have insufficient supply but that is different to deliberately choosing not to vaccinate all adults because it is not considered necessary.

Which countries have released all restriction as soon as they have vaccinated all vulnerable adults?

Well said, @speckledostrichegg. Really have to laugh at how this thread has evolved into "Low risk ppl who take the vaccine in the UK are selfish, but vaccine refusers are selfless saints who are working hard to ensuring a poor man in Gorakphur, India gets the vaccine." Pull the other one!

@bumbleymummy

I don't even know why I'm replying to this but as stated by our health secretary, we are predicted to have 100,000 cases per day by summer. This is not a good thing.

And nowhere else is?

I don't understand this argument that you keep trying to push.

Not dealing with the UK situation just because other countries are also struggling helps no-one. Letting it get out control and exporting new variants which have the potential to render existing vaccine roll outs in other countries is something we need to be actively trying to avoid.

Its like saying, oh my house is on fire but it would selfish and pointless to try and put it out because another is on fire too. Oh well, doesn't matter if more houses catch alight from mine because there are fires in the rest of the world.