Feeling so low about this new world of vaccines

[blue12345]

Just wondering if anyone else is in the same boat as me? For many reasons, I've decided not to get the Covid vaccine. I' have all my vaccines and all my kids are vaccinated. I state this to show I'm not an anti-vaxxer, although I increasingly feel like one.

I'm feeling very isolated from my friends and family as a result of this. Everyone I meet asks me am I booked in yet, am I double-vaccinated. I don't bother getting into conversations about it , but it still causes me anxiety and has led to friction. A very close friend has asked me a few times have I got an appointment for my vaccine yet and I've tried to brush her off, as I think she will be unlikely to want to spend time around me after she finds out I'm not getting it. I've also found that lots of friends have cut back on their contact with me.

I am very comfortable with my decision, but I'm just so sad that we now live in a world where the segregation of vaccinated and unvaccinated people is allowed, in both interpersonal relations and also looking more and more likely that services like restaurants and travel will be similarly restricted.

@MarshaBradyo yes, I know I quoted deaths, that’s why I said deaths in my post. Iirc the top 9 groups made up ~86% of hospitalisations.

Ok but I’d still like to know why you think the delay..

Why would 1% of them need hospitalised if the majority of those who were most likely to end up in hospital have been double vaxxed? You’re just plucking that figure from the air.

To see if the delta variant would lead to a significant increase in hospitalisations. It didn’t.

It hasn’t you mean. Because we’ve delayed

It was to give time for around 40 plus to have second vaccine

There wouldn’t be a need to wait for this if age group didn’t need it.

Vulnerable had second vaccine ages ago

@bumbleymummy

Why would 1% of them need hospitalised if the majority of those who were most likely to end up in hospital have been double vaxxed? You’re just plucking that figure from the air.

@bumbleymummy I admire your tenacity in attempting to minimise the impact of coronavirus on this board

1% is a conservative estimate suggested by several epidemiologists who have concerns about the removal of all restrictions

you assume that no one who "not vulnerable" will be hospitalised, and that somehow everyone who is vulnerable is protected. Neither of these statements are true. A small percentage of a very large number of people (ie, 100,000 per day) has the potential to translate into a LOT of new admissions.

@TheKeatingFive

Bursaries reinstated to get nursing staff ready quickly through the syste, rengaging retired or staff that have left, targeted immigration etc......

That’s pie in the sky and you know it.

Why not pursue this policy pre vaccines? Because it’s unworkable that’s why.

Why would trained nursing staff move in a pandemic when their own country needed them? Why would retired people return to put themselves in greater danger of an illness that has much worse outcomes for older people?

Yes we are losing demotivated staff in record numbers at the moment.

In the last week 4 have handed in their notice. 2 have recently retired.

The 4 have found clinical telephone jobs working from home, paying more. I don’t blame them at all.

Last week in our small nhs department, 4 staff were off isolating. One was on her 6th period of isolating. She’s had so much time off. The workload is backing up which makes more pressure for everyone, then staff go off sick..

@MarshaBradyo

It hasn’t you mean. Because we’ve delayed

It was to give time for around 40 plus to have second vaccine

There wouldn’t be a need to wait for this if age group didn’t need it.

Vulnerable had second vaccine ages ago

They didn’t necessarily ‘need’ it. But there was an opportunity to continuing vaccinating.

Which of the restrictions that we held off on would have had a significant impact on spreading - more than the football related gatherings did?

@speckledostrichegg you’ve accused me of that before but I’m not trying to minimise it. I think we have more than enough evidence now of ‘conservative models’ being incorrect so let’s see how that 100,000 a day with 1,000 people ending up in hospital daily pans out. And I’m not assuming that no one who isn’t vulnerable won’t end up in hospital, or that vulnerable vaccinated people won’t either. I have used words such as ‘majority’ not ‘all’.

From what I can gather:

On July 5th there were 26829 (worldometer) new cases and 335 new hospital admissions (our world in data.) This equates to a hospitalisation rate of 1.25%

Obviously this means 1250 daily hospital admissions if we do reach 100,00 cases a day.

*100,000 cases a day

We’ll see.

@bumbleymummy

We’ll see.

"we'll see" isn't good enough when the consequences are potentially such high levels of hospital admission that healthcare is overwhelmed. It impacts everyone, not just those who are specifically vulnerable to coronavirus.

This is also ignoring the other consequences of letting it circulate through the population uncontrolled - increased mutation rate which will reduce efficacy of prior immunity and the risks of long term complications including long COVID in large numbers of people.

They didn’t necessarily ‘need’ it. But there was an opportunity to continuing vaccinating.

I would say it was the main reason for holding off. We know delta is high proportion ok for double vaccinated but not always one dose

And yes it will change transmission rates on 19th

It is your choice to not get vaccinated & I would defend to the death your right to that choice.

It is the choice of everyone who knows you wether or not they want to spend time with you.

It is the choice of airlines/hotels/hospitality wether or not to let you in their premises.

If your fully comfortable with your choice that includes being fully comfortable with the consequences.

Fwiw I wouldn't spend time with anyone that I know is an anti-Vaxxer. I would realise the friendship was never real.

Codicil of course that some people cannot have the vaccine & that is why as a society we need to protect those vulnerable cannot's - not pander to will not's & their selfish ways.

@speckledostrichegg I really can’t get myself worked up about potential mutations in the small number of unvaccinated people (relatively speaking) in the U.K. compared to the rest of the world.

I’m also not going to live in fear based on hypothetical models that have time and time again proved to be wrong. Let’s see if your prediction is correct. 1000 hospitalisations a day by august you think?

I would say it was the main reason for holding off.

I don’t think it was. I think it was to see if hospitalisations increased or if the vaccine held up against it ok. (It did)

@beachcitygirl

It is your choice to not get vaccinated & I would defend to the death your right to that choice.

It is the choice of everyone who knows you wether or not they want to spend time with you.

It is the choice of airlines/hotels/hospitality wether or not to let you in their premises.

If your fully comfortable with your choice that includes being fully comfortable with the consequences.

Fwiw I wouldn't spend time with anyone that I know is an anti-Vaxxer. I would realise the friendship was never real.

Codicil of course that some people cannot have the vaccine & that is why as a society we need to protect those vulnerable cannot's - not pander to will not's & their selfish ways.

A yes, the whole ‘you’re free to make a choice as long as it’s one I agree with’ argument.

@MySocalledLoaf

You’re not the same person, they’ve found out something about you that has made them realise that you aren’t who they thought you were.

😂

Ignore people who come out with nonsense like this OP.

It was your choice not to take the vaccine, and others have the same bodily autonomy to not want to mix with people who may pose a slightly increased risk to them. It’s also ok to feel sad about their choice.

It's context dependant. If infection rates circulating were low and there was a non-emergency safe and sterilising vaccine, I would think that anyone who hadn't had the vaccine was a little mad but not much of a risk. Because herd immunity would give protection to the group as a whole.

In the middle of a global pandemic though with high circulating virus in the local environment and a virus that mutates I think the opposite.

I see the partially vaccinated and even the fully vaccinated who think they are bullet proof as a threat. They pose more of a threat to you than you do to them. They are more likely to provide a fertile ground for new variants than you. And then the unvaccinated will be easier targets because the virus will have learnt to survive in more hostile environments that were not sufficiently hostile to prevent reproduction.

I see the partially vaccinated and even the fully vaccinated who think they are bullet proof as a threat. They pose more of a threat to you than you do to them. They are more likely to provide a fertile ground for new variants than you. And then the unvaccinated will be easier targets because the virus will have learnt to survive in more hostile environments that were not sufficiently hostile to prevent reproduction.

@KOKOagainandagain where are you getting the information from? It's a complete misunderstanding of basic immunology and virology.

@MySocalledLoaf

But no vaccine that has ever existed worked in every person, every time. Nobody knows how protected they are. Besides, many of us care about the vulnerable in society, not only about our risk of getting it.

That is why herd immunity is so important. It's about stopping the virus from being able to circulate

@HSHorror

You will still have to isolate with contact.

Maybe they see you as prolonging the pandemic.

This.

They see it as you not playing your part. And they are right. Surely you get that??

I'm currently isolating after testing positive, despite being double vaxxed. Not vulnerable or any underlying conditions. I feel like I've been hit by a bus and unable to work, so this is costing me money.

Even before getting infected, I'd have been cautious of people who knowingly didn't vaccinate. If its 80% or so effective, there's still 20% risk, and I'm now walking talking proof that vaccination isn't a guarantee of non infection. No, I'm hopefully not going to be hospitalised or worse, but it's costing me money, so I'll absolutely not mix with people who don't have the social responsibility to protect those around them to the best of their ability.

I'm honestly shocked and disgusted that people would break friends with others over their choice to take a vaccine. I honestly wouldn't want to be friends with anyone like that.

Im not an anti vax and have already taken my vaccine. Yes I questions someone's intelligence for not taking and perhaps would have a slightly different view of them but to fall out is quite nasty.

They haven't committed a crime. It's their body they are free to choose at the end of the day what goes into it.

@blue12345

Totally appreciate everyone's opinions on this, but why? I'm the same person, I have known many of these people for decades. I'm not endangering them. I'm making a medical decision for myself. I have taken other vaccines for the greater good, for myself and my family.

But I'm not willing to do that for this vaccine currently.

I give blood for the greater good. . I don't speed. I give to charity. I volunteer. All
things others don't do. I don't judge anyone their decisions.

I am just so sad that this decision of mine has to be so public. I don't bring up the vaccines, I would NEVER ask them about their vaccines.

Why? Because this is a virus which is a problem in all parts of the world. The entire planet is affected.

I really don’t think people are anti the vaccine in general, they just don’t think it’s necessary for everyone to be vaccinated.

I wonder if they ever stop and think, hmm surely only the vulnerable need to be vaccinated, but then again, scientists and doctors say everyone should be.. what to do? Nah, I'm bound to be right.