Feeling so low about this new world of vaccines

[blue12345]

Just wondering if anyone else is in the same boat as me? For many reasons, I've decided not to get the Covid vaccine. I' have all my vaccines and all my kids are vaccinated. I state this to show I'm not an anti-vaxxer, although I increasingly feel like one.

I'm feeling very isolated from my friends and family as a result of this. Everyone I meet asks me am I booked in yet, am I double-vaccinated. I don't bother getting into conversations about it , but it still causes me anxiety and has led to friction. A very close friend has asked me a few times have I got an appointment for my vaccine yet and I've tried to brush her off, as I think she will be unlikely to want to spend time around me after she finds out I'm not getting it. I've also found that lots of friends have cut back on their contact with me.

I am very comfortable with my decision, but I'm just so sad that we now live in a world where the segregation of vaccinated and unvaccinated people is allowed, in both interpersonal relations and also looking more and more likely that services like restaurants and travel will be similarly restricted.

@bumbleymummy I've been busy, so only reading the full thread now. Everything you say is completely correct, well done for having the patience to respond with the same points over and over again.

@XenoBitch I also agree with you when you said that it's very hard to discuss our views on this, when we are immediately considered anti-vaxxers (even though this is the first vaccine I and I'm sure many others have refused) or else conspiracy theorists.

A few points:

1. The whole discussion around a small minority of UK citizens not choosing to get vaccinated will not be the reason we see new variants. It will be because of the billions of poor people currently being denied vaccines in countries with no health systems. The truly selfless amongst you should begin a campaign to stop all vaccinations in the UK and hand over all remaining vaccines, until the vulnerable there are vaccinated.

2. Lockdowns were initially started, in order for us to protect the vulnerable and stop the NHS from getting overwhelmed. Now, Even while case rates are rising, hospitalisation is not increasing, neither are deaths. So both vaccines and lockdowns have done the job they set out to do. The end goal was never, stop anyone from dying again. If that was possible, fantastic. But what we've
   seen is that lockdowns that stop Covid deaths, cause other deaths and issues. Domestic violence, abuse of children, accidents in the home, cancers going undiagnosed , delayed treatment etc.

3. Other countries are already moving on with their lives away from these discussions. Americans have had masks off for months. Deaths are broadly comparable between American states with v strict lockdowns and others with v few restrictions. Sweden is still roughly in the middle for Covid deaths in Europe, with v few restrictions or use of masks at all. Where are all the bodies piled up in places that have had few restrictions?

Honest question, at what point would you all like to open up?

It's uncertain whether the UK will approve vaccines for the u18's, which means there's a strong likelihood any of you with children will be exposed to unvaccinated people all the time? What are your thoughts on that?

It's been great to hear from some like-minded people, particularly ones who don't throw out wild stories about magnets and 5g and shedding vaccines etc!

lockdowns that stop Covid deaths, cause other deaths and issues. Domestic violence, abuse of children, accidents in the home, cancers going undiagnosed , delayed treatment etc

Bizarre. Nothing like the same numbers.

(Accidents in the home 😂)

@Bovrilly How can you be so confident that the vaccine will cause zero harm? I fully understand , it's unlikely to cause harm. But there is not zero chance. Pharmaceutical companies and scientists have been wrong before. The swine flu vaccine is a case in point, excerpt from article in the Guardian below:

The government is to reverse its stance on the safety of a swine flu vaccine given to 6 million people in Britain and accept that on rare occasions the jab can trigger the devastating sleep disorder narcolepsy.
The Department for Work and Pensions (DWP) has contacted people turned down for compensation last year to explain that, after a review of fresh evidence, it now accepts the vaccine can cause the condition.

www.theguardian.com/society/2013/sep/19/swine-flu-vaccine-narcolepsy-uk

Honest question, at what point would you all like to open up?

Pretty sure everyone would like to open up as soon as possible.
*
It's uncertain whether the UK will approve vaccines for the u18's, which means there's a strong likelihood any of you with children will be exposed to unvaccinated people all the time? What are your thoughts on that?*

My children are teenagers and will have the vaccine if / when they can.

How can you be so confident that the vaccine will cause zero harm? I fully understand , it's unlikely to cause harm. But there is not zero chance.

This might be for someone else because I have never said there is zero chance the vaccine will cause harm.

@Bovrilly

Bizarre to laugh at me over increase in accidents in homes. Here's one small example of increase in deaths of children and adults in the US due to unattended guns at home and school closures.

Record increases in gun sales, children homebound like never before, social isolation, and economic struggles due to COVID-19 put many people at increased risk for gun violence. In fact, 2020 was one of the deadliest years on record for the United States. Gun homicides and non-suicide-related shootings took approximately 19,300 lives, a 25 percent increase from 2019.2

Above is from the CDC, full article linked below:

everytownresearch.org/report/gun-violence-and-covid-19-in-2020-a-year-of-colliding-crises/

Here's another article from Australia,

Eight young children have died in the past two months across Victoria in a series of incidents experts say have spiked due to the state’s Covid-19 lockdown.
In one case, a youngster was unintentionally strangled after getting caught in a curtain chain.

amp.theguardian.com/australia-news/2020/sep/17/victorian-child-deaths-spike-during-covid-lockdown-after-series-of-home-accidents

I thought every death mattered?

@Bovrilly

lockdowns that stop Covid deaths, cause other deaths and issues. Domestic violence, abuse of children, accidents in the home, cancers going undiagnosed , delayed treatment etc

Bizarre. Nothing like the same numbers.

(Accidents in the home 😂)

Does it matter that they’re not causing the same number of deaths? They cause a lot of non- death or even health related problems as well.

I agree that lockdowns cause harm which is why I’m pro high vaccine take up

Can anyone not wanting this think of a country that has only vaccinated the vulnerable and been ok without restrictions?

Love a thread where the OP thanks the people who agree with her, takes a step back from the thread (clearly to do a bit of googling) then comes back to inform the rest of us why we're wrong.

Funny you should mention old Bumbleymummy's tenacity on this argument. She's quite well known for her erm, eclectic stance on health, bodies and vaccinations.

@Geamhradh Anything particularly wrong with the articles I've linked you'd like to discuss?

Does it matter that they’re not causing the same number of deaths? They cause a lot of non- death or even health related problems as well.

Well yes it matters. Most people faced with the choice to save thousands of lives or a much smaller number would choose to save thousands. Arguing against lockdowns because they have caused a relatively small number of deaths is ridiculous.

What happened to the figures for accidents outside the home btw?

It's now very clear what true intention of Op for starting this thread was.

@doesparentingsuck

I'm honestly shocked and disgusted that people would break friends with others over their choice to take a vaccine. I honestly wouldn't want to be friends with anyone like that.

Im not an anti vax and have already taken my vaccine. Yes I questions someone's intelligence for not taking and perhaps would have a slightly different view of them but to fall out is quite nasty.

They haven't committed a crime. It's their body they are free to choose at the end of the day what goes into it.

You're so shocked and disgusted that someone would step back from a friendship due to a difference of opinion that you wouldn't want to be friends with them? Right then.

Here's one small example of increase in deaths of children and adults in the US due to unattended guns at home and school closures.

I didn't realise you were in the US. I'm talking about the situation here in the UK, where we don't have the same issues with unattended guns at home.

@MarshaBradyo

But the initial premise for all of this started with protect the vulnerable and protect the NHS? Are we not there yet? If not, when will we be there?

Is the underlying issue not as someone else previously posted that the NHS is chronically underfunded and understaffed and overworked, even pre Covid.

There seems to be unlimited amounts of money for Covid supports and contracts. They said for decades there was no more money to pay health professionals better wages and increase capacity in the GP networks and in hospitals. But there obviously is money available so why have they not spent that on the NHS?

@Bovrilly

Does it matter that they’re not causing the same number of deaths? They cause a lot of non- death or even health related problems as well.

Well yes it matters. Most people faced with the choice to save thousands of lives or a much smaller number would choose to save thousands. Arguing against lockdowns because they have caused a relatively small number of deaths is ridiculous.

What happened to the figures for accidents outside the home btw?

Actually i don’t think it’s as black and white as that. I think it would depend on the consequences of saving those thousands of lives and whether the people whose lives you saved would die within a few months of something else.

If it were me, it would be because I was protecting my shielding DS.

@blue12345

Hospitalisation rates and deaths are not rising in relation to higher cases though, which means the most vulnerable are protected.

Lots of you have replied and said that the vaccinated can still get Covid. I understand that, but breakthrough infections are meant to be rare and also mild? This is supposedly the benefit of a vaccine that millions of people have taken. What then is the point if they're still afraid to mix with society? In case they get mild Covid?

I just am baffled how many of you think it's ok to just cut contact with a friend based on one viewpoint, having never given them other reasons to doubt me before.

Even a mild infection could kill my DS.

What do you do during flu season?

[quote blue12345]@MarshaBradyo

But the initial premise for all of this started with protect the vulnerable and protect the NHS? Are we not there yet? If not, when will we be there?

Is the underlying issue not as someone else previously posted that the NHS is chronically underfunded and understaffed and overworked, even pre Covid.

There seems to be unlimited amounts of money for Covid supports and contracts. They said for decades there was no more money to pay health professionals better wages and increase capacity in the GP networks and in hospitals. But there obviously is money available so why have they not spent that on the NHS? [/quote]
Yes but vaccinating vulnerable whilst very effective doesn’t get us within capacity. We are there in two weeks as all restrictions lift. I hope so anyway some are more pessimistic than I am.

No country could have dealt with this with only vaccinating vulnerable even if their health system was far better than ours. Take Germany vaccinating 12 plus which we aren’t yet.

There are different degrees of risk mostly based on age (outside vulnerable) and mostly I hope people not having it have got their risk assessment right

@FindYourPorpoise correct. Someone that's doesn't want to be friends with someone because they don't want a vaccine is pathetic.

I see taking a vaccine as a collective effort to get us out of lockdown, if the person is vulnerable/elderly and doesn't want the vaccine yes frustration but if someone is young no underlying health and so doesn't want it - what is the issue? It's THEIR body

@doesparentingsuck

That's true, it is their body but what business is it of yours what your hypothetical friend does in their other hypothetical friendship? It's THIER friendship.

@Bovrilly I'm not in the US. I was talking about some of the impacts of Lockdown.
This is a global issue and not one that will be solved by one country alone.
The point I was trying to make is that lockdowns are imperfect and only protect people from Covid. It's as if nothing else mattered at that point in time, except Covid deaths.

@FindYourPorpoise as the thread is about the OP experiencing isolation from others and wanting to discuss it - it makes it very relevant

[quote doesparentingsuck]@FindYourPorpoise correct. Someone that's doesn't want to be friends with someone because they don't want a vaccine is pathetic.

I see taking a vaccine as a collective effort to get us out of lockdown, if the person is vulnerable/elderly and doesn't want the vaccine yes frustration but if someone is young no underlying health and so doesn't want it - what is the issue? It's THEIR body [/quote]
This.

If someone is scared about the risk and just wants to meet outside for now, then I can understand that. I am not having the vaccine, and if any of my friends were worried about that then I would do whatever they are comfortable with.
But then one "friend" called me a seflish cunt and declared he wanted nothing to do with me at all... In all honestly, the people cutting off friends for not having the vaccine just come across as entitled and throwing their toys out the pram.