Feeling so low about this new world of vaccines

[blue12345]

Just wondering if anyone else is in the same boat as me? For many reasons, I've decided not to get the Covid vaccine. I' have all my vaccines and all my kids are vaccinated. I state this to show I'm not an anti-vaxxer, although I increasingly feel like one.

I'm feeling very isolated from my friends and family as a result of this. Everyone I meet asks me am I booked in yet, am I double-vaccinated. I don't bother getting into conversations about it , but it still causes me anxiety and has led to friction. A very close friend has asked me a few times have I got an appointment for my vaccine yet and I've tried to brush her off, as I think she will be unlikely to want to spend time around me after she finds out I'm not getting it. I've also found that lots of friends have cut back on their contact with me.

I am very comfortable with my decision, but I'm just so sad that we now live in a world where the segregation of vaccinated and unvaccinated people is allowed, in both interpersonal relations and also looking more and more likely that services like restaurants and travel will be similarly restricted.

they just don’t think it’s necessary for everyone to be vaccinated.

But if everyone took the same view as them, then what, was my question on this thread? Long term lockdown or rip is the actual answer whether you admit it to yourself or not.

It’s looking like we’ll have to have very high take up to create protection for those who the vaccine isn’t effective for. Another thing people don’t want to engage with.

@HeyDugeesCakeBadge

No it's really not pie in the sky at all, if we offered attractive packages to nurses and doctors then I expect we would get a lot of interest. We haven't bothered with that though have we? We spent millions upon millions on rubbish systems, spent taxpayers money on PPE that never materialised, we've put in draconian restrictions when actually, if we had invested in our healthcare in the first place we wouldnt have the strain that we have now.

What do you mean? To train Dr and Nurses so we had enough not to have restrictions - training takes how long

Which countries had enough health care capacity to deal with Covid without restrictions or vaccines?

We have a vaccine that helps us remove restrictions and if we use them not just in vulnerable groups then we can lift more of them

I don’t get why anyone would be agaibst using them in more than vulnerable if we can move on

We have to meet dsil at dmils birthday gathering at the weekend. Silly cow won't get vaccinated as she is more precious than everyone else. Oh yes I do judge her and she will be lucky if I can bite my tongue.

Yes Keating a well funded NHS is like asking the fairies to magic it away. Exactly the same.

I’m all for bolstering the nhs. Trust me. That’s a long slow process though

expecting to ‘find’ the personnel to resource widespread home nursing out of nowhere and at a moments notice is absolutely fairy territory.

The right talk about the deserving/non deserving poor and the left talk about the deserving/ non deserving NHS patient. Quite a disturbing parallel.

I'm not adverse to vaccines for the vulnerable and anyone who wants them. The aim was not to overwhelm the NHS so the vaccinating the vulnerable should stop that. What I do dislike is the polarisation of debate about people who don't want a vaccine for whatever the reason are inherently selfish. The goal wasn't to vaccinate everyone in the first place it was to help the vulnerable stay safe to avoid the NHS collapsing - somewhere along the lines we have forgotten this and pitted one another against each other.

If someone wants to not get the vaccine, that's their choice. But I also reserve the right to choose not to spend time with people like that. Vaccines are to protect the most vulnerable of society, they don't stop you getting the virus, but it's a milder version and less transmittable.
I do know a few people who won't get it, they're the ones spreading all the vaccine unsafe stories and Covid is a hoax and I wouldn't spend any time with them. If they didn't want to spend time with me because I'm vaccinated, that would be their choice and I would respect it.

@HeyDugeesCakeBadge

I'm not adverse to vaccines for the vulnerable and anyone who wants them. The aim was not to overwhelm the NHS so the vaccinating the vulnerable should stop that. What I do dislike is the polarisation of debate about people who don't want a vaccine for whatever the reason are inherently selfish. The goal wasn't to vaccinate everyone in the first place it was to help the vulnerable stay safe to avoid the NHS collapsing - somewhere along the lines we have forgotten this and pitted one another against each other.

It’s not mandatory for anyone so yes everyone can choose but just vaccinating the vulnerable wouldn’t be enough to stop overwhelming capacity.

If you look to other countries where you might think their health service is better they are likely vaccinating to a younger age group still eg Germany

But I'm not one of those who is spreading that misinformation. The vulnerable are already protected by the vaccines. They are also at risk of a deteriorating healthcare system because of the economy collapsing for an illness, unless vulnerable you are unlikely to die from.

Marsha, this is a good faith question but why would it overwhelm the NHS if the vulnerable (of all ages) and elderly and anyone who wants one is vaccinated? We are there now and the NHS is not overwhelmed? Obviously it's a wait and see situation but hospitalisations and deaths are not at overwhelmibg capacity I don't believe?

@HeyDugeesCakeBadge

But I'm not one of those who is spreading that misinformation. The vulnerable are already protected by the vaccines. They are also at risk of a deteriorating healthcare system because of the economy collapsing for an illness, unless vulnerable you are unlikely to die from.

What misinformation? I’m not following you

Marsha that was aimed at anon, who said people who aren't getting the vaccines are spreading vaccine unsafe stories.

@HeyDugeesCakeBadge

But I'm not one of those who is spreading that misinformation. The vulnerable are already protected by the vaccines. They are also at risk of a deteriorating healthcare system because of the economy collapsing for an illness, unless vulnerable you are unlikely to die from.

sigh

the vulnerable (and everyone else) will be at risk when the NHS is saturated with COVID patients. They need to be treated as a priority, we can't magic them away, and this means more cancellations of routine and non-urgent appointments, screenings and surgeries. Added to this is that even if you're not at risk of dying of COVID, you certainly will be if you need emergency surgery but healthcare staff are unable to provide safe standards of care because they're busy trying to keep COVID patients alive amidst shortages due to sickness.

We are predicted to be up to 100,000 cases by the Summer. If just 1% need hospital treatment this will be 1000 new admissions a day.

Honestly tempted to start a thread saying “sick of anti Vaxxers wanting the freedom the vaccinated have provided them, and complaining when people don’t want to be round them and trying to pretend they don’t pose an additional risk”

Op, when it comes to Covid you’re an anti vaxxer. You pose an addition risk to people and are in part responsible for the prolonged spread of this virus. You have chosen not to be vaccinated, accept that comes with consequences for you.

@MarshaBradyo

It’s more about hospital capacity though

If you breach it you need restrictions

So only vaccinating vulnerable could be difficult with above

No, because the vulnerable make up the vast majority of hospitalisations/deaths. (~99% of deaths according to the JCVI report). If they don’t get as seriously ill then they don’t end up in hospital.

@HeyDugeesCakeBadge

Marsha that was aimed at anon, who said people who aren't getting the vaccines are spreading vaccine unsafe stories.

I said in the people I know they are spreading unsafe stories, I don't know about you, so I didn't say you or quote you...

*99% of deaths according to the JCVI report

You’ve quoted deaths you need to look at hospitalisation figures

Why do you think we delayed for four weeks?

To Bumbley

No, because the vulnerable make up the vast majority of hospitalisations/deaths.

They don’t make up 99% of hospitalisations.

The vaccines are good, but not perfectly efficacious. Even if every single vulnerable person in the land is vaccinated, a percentage of them will still die if they catch COVID.

@TheKeatingFive

they just don’t think it’s necessary for everyone to be vaccinated.

But if everyone took the same view as them, then what, was my question on this thread? Long term lockdown or rip is the actual answer whether you admit it to yourself or not.

It’s looking like we’ll have to have very high take up to create protection for those who the vaccine isn’t effective for. Another thing people don’t want to engage with.

Why would everyone think the same way when risk-benefit is so different depending on age/comorbidities etc? Uptake in the at risk groups is really high because of the personal benefit to them.

So no, that’s not my answer. It wouldn’t exactly ‘rip’ very far now anyway given that ~90% of over 16s have antibodies from vaccination/infection and a significant number of under 16s probably do as well.

Your right to make this choice.

Others right to regard this as anti social and react accordingly.

Why would everyone think the same way when risk-benefit is so different depending on age/comorbidities etc? Uptake in the at risk groups is really high because of the personal benefit to them.

The risks of long term lockdown or an overwhelmed health service apply to everyone.

Every person who doesn’t get vaccinated makes that a tiny bit more likely.

Yes, but there are levels that are considered ‘manageable’ such as the levels we experience with flu every year.

the vulnerable (and everyone else) will be at risk when the NHS is saturated with COVID patients.

Why would it be saturated with covid patients when the majority have been vaccinated and ~90% of over 16s have antibodies?

Bumbley why do you think we delayed from June to July 19 to remove all restrictions?

@bumbleymummy

Yes, but there are levels that are considered ‘manageable’ such as the levels we experience with flu every year.

the vulnerable (and everyone else) will be at risk when the NHS is saturated with COVID patients.

Why would it be saturated with covid patients when the majority have been vaccinated and ~90% of over 16s have antibodies?

we are predicted to have 100,000 new COVID cases by the summer

if just 1% require hospital treatment this translates to 1000 new admissions per day

added to the fact that letting transmission get wildly out of control increases mutation rates, leading to the emergence of new variants where are going to decrease efficacy of previous immunity, increasing the chances of secondary infection and starting the whole sorry cycle again