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Original poster

Feeling so low about this new world of vaccines

999 replies

blue12345 · 07/07/2021 21:36

Just wondering if anyone else is in the same boat as me? For many reasons, I've decided not to get the Covid vaccine. I' have all my vaccines and all my kids are vaccinated. I state this to show I'm not an anti-vaxxer, although I increasingly feel like one.

I'm feeling very isolated from my friends and family as a result of this. Everyone I meet asks me am I booked in yet, am I double-vaccinated. I don't bother getting into conversations about it , but it still causes me anxiety and has led to friction. A very close friend has asked me a few times have I got an appointment for my vaccine yet and I've tried to brush her off, as I think she will be unlikely to want to spend time around me after she finds out I'm not getting it. I've also found that lots of friends have cut back on their contact with me.

I am very comfortable with my decision, but I'm just so sad that we now live in a world where the segregation of vaccinated and unvaccinated people is allowed, in both interpersonal relations and also looking more and more likely that services like restaurants and travel will be similarly restricted.

OP posts:
Reallybadidea · 09/07/2021 14:09

The risk of covid is much higher in every adult age group than that of the vaccine. That is the whole basis for its approval. If you allowed the majority of people who are not classed as vulnerable to be infected then many would die. Far more than from the vaccine. A very small percentage of a huge number is still a big number.

TheKeatingFive · 09/07/2021 14:10

Why would many people die?

Because deaths have occurred in the non vulnerable and among the vulnerable there are many who can’t be vaxxed or for whom it won’t work well. High levels of infection in the community would result in many deaths among that group of people, regardless of their jabs.

HeyDugeesCakeBadge · 09/07/2021 14:10

Really, what are the statistics for 20-50 year olds without comorbidities dying of covid?

TheKeatingFive · 09/07/2021 14:11

And yes, plenty of non vulnerable would need hospital care, overwhelming the system

TheKeatingFive · 09/07/2021 14:12

Really, what are the statistics for 20-50 year olds without comorbidities dying of covid?

Not particularly high, but your way they’d all be exposed and small percentages add up.

Plus the other problems it causes.

bumbleymummy · 09/07/2021 14:42

@supersonicsue

People behaving like they’re more at risk now than they were pre-vaccine. Completely illogical

My own (completely illogical) view is that it FEELS more at risk for my CEV husband, even though stastically it isn't. Previously he could shield and it felt safe, but now that is no longer an option we have to venture out into the world of work, as the children have to go to school where they are numerous positive cases each day. So it does feel as if he is more at risk especially due to the strangers he may come into contact with who may have refused the vaccine. And of course like everyone the vaccine refusers will no longer have to socially distance or wear a mask either. So I personally have never felt quite so terrified for my husband (hence still awake at 5am) and so would love people like the OP to change their minds, though of course that would be very selfish of me to think that way. So although my feelings may seem very illogical to others, they are very real to me and this part of the pandemic has been the most difficult part for me.

But all he can do is have his own vaccine to protect himself and hope for the best. There will always be non-immune people around that he could come into contact with - children, people whose vaccine didn’t provide immunity, people who can’t be vaccinated or don’t want to be yet eg pregnant women. You really can’t control what’s going on around you.
Reallybadidea · 09/07/2021 15:02

@HeyDugeesCakeBadge

Really, what are the statistics for 20-50 year olds without comorbidities dying of covid?
www.nature.com/articles/s41586-020-2918-0/figures/2
HeyDugeesCakeBadge · 09/07/2021 15:08

My view would to be to invest in quality community healthcare so that moderately Ill patients could be treated at home and not in hospital. Money spent on rubbish test and trace, NHS app, ppe scandals etc should have paid for that.

TheKeatingFive · 09/07/2021 15:13

Where do the staff for that come from?

bumbleymummy · 09/07/2021 15:13

@TheDevils

I have a very close friend is is not pro vaccine but she not overly outspoken about it. I am pro vaccine. We have had some great chats around the topic as I am genuinely interested in her reasoning. She is not a conspiracy theorist, but she has some very valid opinions.

I wish there was more respect between the 2 different viewpoints but then there is such a lack of respect and a massive divide between so many now regarding so many things... brexit springs to mind!! It would be a whole lot better if people would actually listen to each other, even if you don't agree!

A few years ago I was part of a research project which was looking at how anti-vaxx information is presented on the internet and why so many people get taken in by it. I was only on the periphery but it meant I read a lot of anti vaxx websites, fb groups etc. Quite frankly their views are dangerous and I could not be friends with someone who supports or holds those views.

I have a lot of sympathy for those with phobias and health anxiety and would be supportive in those cases.

But pseudo science, conspiracy theories or making a decision as to whose life you think is worth more? .....nah, I think I'd struggle to remain friends as the respect would be gone.

But someone deciding not to have this vaccine is not necessarily anti-vaxx and may not have any interest in any of those conspiracy theories. Just like someone who decides not to have the flu vaccine every year wouldn’t be considered ‘anti-vaxx’ in general.

There really seems to be a collective effort to label people as anti-vaxx in order to discredit their opinion and make them out to be conspiracy theory loving loons.

XenoBitch · 09/07/2021 15:15

@TheKeatingFive

What would you prefer to do instead to get us out of this?

As far as I can see, it’s either never ending lockdowns or restrictions or “let it rip” herd immunity.

I’ve been asking this too. Tumbleweed.

Considering people who don't want this vaccine get labelled as stupid and uneducated, how on earth do you expect them to have an answer for this?
therearenogoodusernamesleft · 09/07/2021 15:17

If a friend of mine decided against the vaccine, it would absolute change my view of them. I would suspect they're not capable of critical thinking and had got drawn into conspiracy theories (sorry OP!).

I've lost loved ones to Covid. We have all made a lot of sacrifices over the last year, so I would be very selective about who I spend time with.

HeyDugeesCakeBadge · 09/07/2021 15:17

Bursaries reinstated to get nursing staff ready quickly through the syste, rengaging retired or staff that have left, targeted immigration etc......

TheKeatingFive · 09/07/2021 15:19

how on earth do you expect them to have an answer for this?

I haven’t called anyone stupid, but there isn’t an answer to this.

None of the suggestions are workable.

I’m sure most people had reservations about a taking vaccine, but they understood the alternatives and realised that they needed to take a risk.

TheKeatingFive · 09/07/2021 15:22

Bursaries reinstated to get nursing staff ready quickly through the syste, rengaging retired or staff that have left, targeted immigration etc......

That’s pie in the sky and you know it.

Why not pursue this policy pre vaccines? Because it’s unworkable that’s why.

Why would trained nursing staff move in a pandemic when their own country needed them? Why would retired people return to put themselves in greater danger of an illness that has much worse outcomes for older people?

XenoBitch · 09/07/2021 15:25

@therearenogoodusernamesleft

If a friend of mine decided against the vaccine, it would absolute change my view of them. I would suspect they're not capable of critical thinking and had got drawn into conspiracy theories (sorry OP!).

I've lost loved ones to Covid. We have all made a lot of sacrifices over the last year, so I would be very selective about who I spend time with.

Or maybe they have huge anxiety about it. Why not just ask instead of assuming they have fallen down some conspiracy theory rabbit hole?
HeyDugeesCakeBadge · 09/07/2021 15:26

No it's really not pie in the sky at all, if we offered attractive packages to nurses and doctors then I expect we would get a lot of interest. We haven't bothered with that though have we? We spent millions upon millions on rubbish systems, spent taxpayers money on PPE that never materialised, we've put in draconian restrictions when actually, if we had invested in our healthcare in the first place we wouldnt have the strain that we have now.

Bovrilly · 09/07/2021 15:26

Considering people who don't want this vaccine get labelled as stupid and uneducated, how on earth do you expect them to have an answer for this?

Well they often say they're not anti-vax, they're just not taken in by MSM propaganda and do their own research. So they claim to be making a reasoned decision but then the reasoning falls apart quite quickly when it turns out they think the vaccine is riskier than the disease, or not all the Covid deaths were Covid, or they'd do it if healthy young people were at risk but not for CEV young people.

TheKeatingFive · 09/07/2021 15:34

No it's really not pie in the sky at all, if we offered attractive packages to nurses and doctors then I expect we would get a lot of interest.

Why wasn’t this a policy one vaccine then?

You are talking absolute nonsense and I’m sure you know it.

TheKeatingFive · 09/07/2021 15:34

Pre vaccine

TheKeatingFive · 09/07/2021 15:37

if we had invested in our healthcare in the first place we wouldnt have the strain that we have now.

If it was that easy they would have done it. The problem isn’t money but scaring up tens of thousands of trained people.

HeyDugeesCakeBadge · 09/07/2021 15:41

It wasn't an option pre vaccine because that would actually require the government to actually invest in health care and the people that work within it. Why do you think people leave the NHS in droves? Because of poor wages and poor environment. I don't think it's nonsense no, you asked for my alternative to vaccinating everyone and I gave it - it's not my fault if you don't like the answer.

bumbleymummy · 09/07/2021 15:44

@TheKeatingFive

What would you prefer to do instead to get us out of this?

As far as I can see, it’s either never ending lockdowns or restrictions or “let it rip” herd immunity.

I’ve been asking this too. Tumbleweed.

I’ve answered this several times on threads you’ve been on. Vaccinate the most vulnerable groups to maximise the reduction in hospitalisations/deaths, offer it to anyone else who wants it (but don’t pressure people to have it) and then just crack on. I really don’t think people are anti the vaccine in general, they just don’t think it’s necessary for everyone to be vaccinated.
TheKeatingFive · 09/07/2021 15:44

you asked for my alternative to vaccinating everyone and I gave it - it's not my fault if you don't like the answer.

I don’t like it because it isn’t the slightest bit realistic. You might as well have said we should ask the fairies to magic it away.

HeyDugeesCakeBadge · 09/07/2021 15:47

Yes Keating a well funded NHS is like asking the fairies to magic it away. Exactly the same.

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