Austalian state likely can't contain Delta, will let it rip

[starfro]

www.abc.net.au/news/2021-07-07/nsw-delta-variant-may-never-be-controlled/100273956

Be thankful that here most vulnerable people are double jabbed, whereas over there it's far, far fewer.

Delta cannot be contained, it's too transmissible.

@MarshaBradyo

Typical posts re U.K. being bad Aus good.

Ridiculous

A lot of the anti U.K. stuff is just political

What a strange thing to post on a thread largely devoted to pointing out how Australia in particular has got it all wrong with pursuing a suppression strategy. Quite gleefully, at times.

"They are now panicking!"

It’s one post about panicking. Most people know some in Aus and if they speak will get an idea of mood there.

Now it’s swung to how U.K. shouldn’t talk about developing vaccine and better living standards and typical stuff.

I’m Aus / British anyway and know the reality of living in both. Find this endless doing U.K. down stuff ridiculous

I think it’s fine to talk about the achievements of AZ on this thread as it’s about Australia and is one of the two vaccines Australia has and makes itself. It’s also going to be one of the main solutions for Australia to get them out of lockdown limbo.
Trashing it has been criminal imo, but the messaging on this does seem to be improving.
It seems Australia is aiming for 80% of adult population double jabbed before opening. That might be 60% ish of total population?
Aim is to get there by January which sounds very feasible to me. It’s not letting it rip but then actually the U.K. never let it rip either despite media reports.
We actually had a long slow opening that started in Feb/ march and only the final freedoms eg. Nightclubs opened on the 19th July. Cases have plummeted since then, so all the warnings, Petri Dish of the world, guinea pigs, Uk should be sued etc turned out to be rubbish.
1200 scientists wrote a letter telling U.K. not to open up on the 19th, they were wrong. I haven’t seen a letter from them apologising yet. It’s probably still being drafted.

I actually think that is a good general lesson, not all scientists know what they are talking about and some are just incorrect and best ignored.

I find this endless putting down of Australia and NZ for pursuing a suppression strategy (never any mention of Singapore, Hong Kong, Taiwan, or Vietnam) rather tiring also.

Trashing it has been criminal imo

Are you actually in Australia? No. Nobody has 'trashed' the AZ vaccine. There was a certain amount of trepidation with the number of deaths from blood clots in previously well and relatively young people at the very start of the rollout here, however. ATAGI has made various recommendations. These have changed as the situation has changed.

The suppression strategy was very much the right decision for Aus / NZ.

I only have to look at comparative year for family to see it.

Although I t doesn’t mean U.K. could have done the same and that anything that was good needs to be rubbished (vaccine/ ‘U.K. experiment’)

Sasha ha at this 1200 scientists wrote a letter telling U.K. not to open up on the 19th, they were wrong. I haven’t seen a letter from them apologising yet. It’s probably still being drafted.

Agree with your post

No I live in London but a volunteer on the AZ trial so more interested in it than most! Macron started the trashing, closely followed by Merkel back in January and then it spread.
I read Aussie press and there is a lot of talk about some in Australia talking down the AZ vaccine, telling people to wait for pfzier. That’s what I mean. One thing that worked here was everyone on all political sides encouraged the vaccine, no one talked it down. We were”lucky” in some respects that it rolled out in a wave so people were motivated. It does seem the message ischanging on AZ though and the negativity is being challenged and so I’m sure Jan 22 for 80% vaccinated is very achievable.

I mean, at the time it made sense for people NOT to get the AZ vaccine. We had zero cases so if the risk of a blood clot was 1:1million and the risk of a bad outcome from Covid was 0:1million then I can see why people would wait and say “have the vaccine with lower risk”
Some healthy people did die of blood clots from the vaccine here and imagine if this had been covered up, or the risks not mentioned, then people would have said “how dare you use a vaccine with this risk without telling me!”
A tricky situation. Equally, the “normal” press (rather than the tabloid press) made it very clear from the outset that there was a very small risk, we take bigger risks from other medications daily but this was overshadowed by the “Young mum dead from vaccine” headlines.
Then as soon as we had cases here, the risk profile changed from 0:million for Covid risks to (I don’t know the figures but) maybe 5:million? Or something like that. So at that stage it made more sense to get the vaccine rather than Covid.
But by that stage the damage was done, people were holding out for Pfizer, especially as Pfizer was talked up as being more effective.
To be honest, there are a lot of people who get all their news from dodgy places and parts of the media were very happy to play up the risks, so you can’t blame people for being hesitant when at the time there were no cases here and even the government was saying “we have time, it’s not a race”

The mixed messaging from our incompetent Australian PM and health minister has been unbelievably damaging and made many fearful about getting AZ.
Everyone I know has had it with no ill effects, and many young people in their 20s are getting it now because now with the Sydney outbreak no one trusts the government to get enough Pfizer doses out in time.

I mean, at the time it made sense for people NOT to get the AZ vaccine. We had zero cases

I don’t agree with this. It was never going to stay at zero cases and everyone knew, even before Delta, how quickly it could take hold in the population.

As soon as vaccines became available, the best thing any country could be doing was getting them in arms, as soon as possible.

Yes I absolutely don’t blame individuals. It’s the politicians and Those in charge of Health that should reflect on what they said. It is criminal to talk down a vaccine that is going to be used throughout the world from the privileged position of a first world country. This is another debate but Macron in particular was dreadful. No one working on the AZ vaccine here where I attend for my visits could believe it. They were furious at his careless words, incorrectly ( deliberately?) interpreting the data. It has ramifications not just in France but in many poorer countries too that have no choice to get or buy “expensive” pfzier.
Anyway another debate.

MN posters in the UK are convinced the UK singlehandedly saved the world by developing the AZ vaccine - neglecting to notice that all over the world countries pitched in and shared information and in some cases hefty financial contributions to the development of AZ, which is only one of many current vaccines

What a ridiculous and inaccurate generalisation. There have been real problems here with people not wanting AstraZeneca because they think it’s shit.

Utterly pathetic UK bashing.

@sashagabadon

Yes I absolutely don’t blame individuals. It’s the politicians and Those in charge of Health that should reflect on what they said. It is criminal to talk down a vaccine that is going to be used throughout the world from the privileged position of a first world country. This is another debate but Macron in particular was dreadful. No one working on the AZ vaccine here where I attend for my visits could believe it. They were furious at his careless words, incorrectly ( deliberately?) interpreting the data. It has ramifications not just in France but in many poorer countries too that have no choice to get or buy “expensive” pfzier. Anyway another debate.

Isn't Pfizer more effective? Despite a slower vaccine rollout, european countries have, overall, lower deaths rates and lower infections. They've now caught back up, as will Australia and NZ, they'll come out with less economic damage and far less heartache - its the long game.

I'd have Australia's % death rate over ours any day.

Cue "but uk is an international travel hub......" ignoring the fact international travel pretty much stopped!

Cue "but uk is an international travel hub......" ignoring the fact international travel pretty much stopped!

The trouble is people don’t get the differences between border realities.

Have you lived elsewhere out of interest?

So many elements that get us to where we are.

Just an anecdote, but both me and my dh are double jabbed AZ. I had my doses May and August last year. So a year ago. My dh caught the Wembley football variant like half the male population watching the football down the pub. Neither me nor the children caught it off him. All he had was a headache.
So for us regarding his symptoms and transmission, it worked as it should. Pretty sure it was delta as that is most cases in the U.K.

Isn't Pfizer more effective?

No data that I’ve seen has suggested Pfizer is any more effective in preventing serious illness/death.

The trouble is people don’t get the differences between border realities

Even though it’s been explained again and again. And again.

@TheKeatingFive I think I worded that poorly - yes, it would have been sensible to get any vaccine as it was likely that Covid would get here eventually (and in fact I said this to quite a lot of people at the time, especially as I had seen the success of AZ in the U.K.) but what I meant was if people actually looked at the likelihood of a “vaccine reaction” vs a “Covid reaction” at that particular point in time (when we had zero Covid) then there was a higher chance of a vaccine reaction (even though that chance was very small) than a Covid reaction (as at that point the chance was zero).

@SlipperyDippery

MN posters in the UK are convinced the UK singlehandedly saved the world by developing the AZ vaccine - neglecting to notice that all over the world countries pitched in and shared information and in some cases hefty financial contributions to the development of AZ, which is only one of many current vaccines

What a ridiculous and inaccurate generalisation. There have been real problems here with people not wanting AstraZeneca because they think it’s shit.

Utterly pathetic UK bashing.

I am confused. What part of that statement is UK bashing? And where is 'here'? I don't think it is inaccurate, it is a supposition that has appeared regularly and bobs up particularly on the threads that focus on or segue into a bizarre comparisons and competition with Australia. It is a ridiculous sentiment, though, I agree.

Of course people in the U.K. will talk about AZ vaccine

As some posters have about QLD one although it didn’t go through

I have no idea why anyone would find this so difficult to see

Can U.K. not say positive things about science and scientists?

milkyaqua

But you didn’t say a handful of posters based in the UK have said the UK singlehandedly saved the world (never seen a post saying that the UK has “saved the world” myself. Could you link to a few of these?)

You said “MN posters in the UK” think that (hence the generalisation), before going on the try to downplay the UK’s involvement in AstraZeneca and pointing out there are other vaccines as well. The tone was very negative towards the UK’s role in producing AstraZeneca which on any objective viewpoint is one worthy of praise.

The mRNA vaccines are astonishing scientific feats, but the logistics of them aren’t going to work in some of the most vulnerable and disadvantaged communities in the world, and so there is definitely a place for AstraZeneca in terms of affordability and practicality. I don’t know where your dislike of the UK has come from such that you don’t seem to be able to acknowledge they played a big part in this important vaccine without being snarky.

Well I notice that when Brits on the thread talked about scientific progress it was fine; it was just "pride".

However when an Australian talked about our scientific progress here it was "doing the UK down" and unacceptable. Why are some people determined to turn everything into a competition?

Having concerns about AZ vaccine is not "bashing" the UK - it's no reflection on anyone's national character.

I dont know what to fully believe. We are led to believe by the Daily Mail that sydney is over ran with police and helicopters. I think scott morrison messed up vaccine procurement putting all his eggs in the AZ basket. They are at 20% double jabbed . Deaths are very low comparitively TG but lockdowns had to happen with little availability of vaccine. Awful on businesses.- zero covid was a pipe dream. Id like to know do all new zealanders love jacinda- her popularity is dropping at the minute. My best friends Family live in Perth. One of which works on a cancer ward as admin with files- not a sign of a vaccine- swabbed 4 times a week and has had nasal infections from them.omg are cancer patients vaxxed ?? In a few months, australia will opem hopefully.i know so many out there sooo lonely as cant just hop on a plane home which is not a nice feeling when older family members here !!! Its so hard on foreign nationals there and businesses . Its just going to be a complete nightmare until 90% vaxxed

Well I notice that when Brits on the thread talked about scientific progress it was fine; it was just "pride".

Ha no. If you talk about AZ being good it’s WW2 posts like below or ‘flag waving’ bollocks.

You can talk about Aus science and no one will take it as doing U.K. down - where is this?

And Australia's COVID research was only mentioned because PP had accused Australia of "slamming shut and not caring about the rest of the world, letting everyone else sort it out" or whatever.