100,000 cases a day by August....bloody hell

[ssd]

We're all going to get it eventually it seems

Absolutely hopeless. I'm out.

@Tealightsandd I get you’re all for smoking but you know it doesn’t just kill very old people right…? It kills young people, it causes horrible cancers, hideous side effects. Have you ever seen a young smoker die of cancer and experience the guilt, anger, sadness and grief that that causes? You must be mad if you genuinely think smoking has no negative side effects until 80+.

This will be a defining moment for Johnson, he hasn't the support of Labour, nor of a very large number of people in this country.... if it goers well, it'll be his Churchill moment, if not, a Chamberlain one.

I think this is going to lose Boris and his Tories the next General election.

Goodnight.

Have a cigarette. It'll calm you down

[quote UpSlyDown]@Tealightsandd I get you’re all for smoking but you know it doesn’t just kill very old people right…? It kills young people, it causes horrible cancers, hideous side effects. Have you ever seen a young smoker die of cancer and experience the guilt, anger, sadness and grief that that causes? You must be mad if you genuinely think smoking has no negative side effects until 80+.[/quote]
I'm not especially pro or anti smoking. I am against hypocrisy and double standards.

You've just described Covid. Except that Covid is all of the bad - kills, disables, costs the economy - and none of the good (pleasurable, stress relieving, helps reduce obesity, tax revenue).

One we're told to 'live with', and no mitigation measures, like masks. The other we're told is Very Very Bad and we can't do it on trains (but we can go maskless on a train and spread Covid).

Makes sense. Well no it doesn't but there you go.

@Tealightsandd I’m sorry if you can’t see the difference between covid and smoking I can’t help you. Im out.

Just to be clear smoking isn’t illegal in this country other than in public indoor spaces..still allowed outside even if it could cause harm to others! So old people who want to smoke can do so. It’s advices as bad for your health but then so are a lot of things (alcohol fatty food etc). I don’t even agree with getting rid of face masks but the analogy to smoking (which is legal!) seems very strange surely another legislated for behaviours (seat belts) would be better!

Goodnight.

I just listed the difference in my last post, but I'll do it again.

Smoking. Can kill and disable.
But...lots of tax revenue, and is an activity many find enjoyable and relaxing.
Public are told it's Very Bad and not to use personal responsibility to smoke on trains and in pubs.

Covid. Can kill and disable.
It also costs the economy a lot, and is the very opposite of a pleasant or relaxing experience.
Public are told to 'just live maybe die with it' and to use personal responsibility about masks on trains and other enclosed spaces.

Right so.

Just to be clear smoking isn’t illegal in this country other than in public indoor spaces...it could cause harm to others

What, like going maskless in public indoor spaces...?

@CrouchEndTiger12

Out of population of almost 70 million, 100000 cases that's what 0.14% of the population with covid. That's staggeringly low.

Did you miss that is per day?

Given it's doubling in 9 days, assuming your 0.14% is accurate that means it's 1.26% additional infections in 9 days and 3.78% additional infections within 18 days.

Now work this out over 6 to 8 weeks!

Not so staggering low and that assumes the R rate doesn't increase, as it could well do.

Sigh smoking outside can harm others and is legal non mask wearing in this country inside will be legal and can cause harm to others. So yes two legal actions that can harm others same thing there are probably some more of you looked for them but yes we do sometimes allow people to do things that cause harm to others (smoking outside even in crowds, driving lots of things) so non mask wearing will just join a list!

As I said I don’t even support getting rid I just wanted to let you know (since it’s important to you) you can go down the pub tonight smoke in the beer garden and risk others health since you seemed upset you couldn’t (abs yes you will give money to the exchequer too)

@SamW98
Everyone had to provide proof of being double vaccinated or provide a negative PCR test

A news program showed with Scots v England match that the checks aren't thorough and many are getting in regardless of CV status.

smoking does kill. And not only the people who smoke. Which is why it is now banned indoors. Smoking is a choice.

Covid is a virus. Not everyone has covid. So someone walking into a shop without a mask on does not mean passing it on. Masks are not 100%effective. Stopping smoking indoors is 100% effective at stopping others breathing in second hand smoke indoors.

Smokers can still exercise choice - they can still choose to smoke. Just cannot inflict their smoke onto others indoors.

People still have to breathe and masks are not 100% effective, especially as many don't wear them properly.

I worked in bars in the days where you could smoke indoors. Emptying the ashtrays was the most disgusting job. Having to shower the moment you got in as the smell of stale smoke clings to everything. Having my asthma flare up due to others having the need to smoke.

Many smokers regret ever starting and find it addictive, not pleasurable. And wish they could give up.

Seriously the two cannot be compared, and you just make yourself look more and more silly each post when you harp on about smokers.

When we get to "a million cases in ten days" sort of unprecedented prevalence we might have a better idea

Come on, you really are clutching at straws now. There simply aren't enough people vulnerable to the virus left for it to hit those numbers. Even with a doubling time of 9days that's 14million positive tests on the way to an average of 1million/day plus all the infections that are asymptomatic and not found.

In reality the pool of potential victims will be shrinking every day (through double vaccination and infection), so there will be a point far lower where it Will simply have nowhere to go.

smoking does kill. And not only the people who smoke. Which is why it is now banned indoors.

So does Covid. And masks indoors help prevent it.

Yet, smoking indoors is not allowed. In case it harms someone else.

But masks indoors are going to be a personal choice. Even although going maskless can harm somebody else.

Also why does it matter if smoking kills? Like you say, smoking is a choice (but not indoors...).

Catching Covid isn't a choice. If it's ok to 'live with' a disease that kills and disables, a disease that gives no pleasure, why isn't it ok to 'live with' smoking (which unlike Covid brings pleasure and tax money).

Why is it bad that smoking kills? We all die of something. Don't smoke so you can die of Covid?

People still have to breathe and masks are not 100% effective, especially as many don't wear them properly.

They go a long way towards protecting Other People. How effective the mask is for protecting the wearer is a separate issue (and does indeed depend on the type of mask).

You didn't like emptying ashtrays because it affected your asthma. Yet it's ok for vulnerable people, those less protected by vaccines and CEV unvaccinated children, to be exposed to Covid by people going maskless?

Also the pollination from traffic is as harmful as smoking (in fact often worse) yet we live in a modern society where cara are an essential part of life. In which cars smoking doesn't really make a huge difference.

The messaging is very contrary. It's Bad to Smoke because a) you might die, and b) other people might not like being exposed to it.

But - it's ok to 'live with' a disease that kills and disables and to go maskless indoors, because a) We all have to die of something, and b) Personal responsibility.

So no smoking even although it's a net economic gain, but yes to Covid spreading despite, unlike smoking, having no gain economic or enjoyment wise.

Anyone refusing to see the contradiction and hypocrisy is being wilfully blind.

Like people keep saying, we all have to die of something.

I think dying from smoking, after getting a huge amount of pleasure from it and contributing billions to the economy, is better than dying from Covid. Which gives no pleasure and costs the economy a lot.

It's not as if living longer is valued. No, you become one of the elderly. Who have been told repeatedly this past 18 months that their lives aren't worth an effort to save. How many times have we seen on MN and in the news reports of 'it's only the elderly and vulnerable'?

Also, a separate point. Either people can use personal responsibility to risk others or not. So either it's ok to go maskless and/or smoke in public indoor spaces, or it's not.

@Whatever9999

When we get to "a million cases in ten days" sort of unprecedented prevalence we might have a better idea

Come on, you really are clutching at straws now. There simply aren't enough people vulnerable to the virus left for it to hit those numbers. Even with a doubling time of 9days that's 14million positive tests on the way to an average of 1million/day plus all the infections that are asymptomatic and not found.

In reality the pool of potential victims will be shrinking every day (through double vaccination and infection), so there will be a point far lower where it Will simply have nowhere to go.

A million cases in 10 days is 100,000 cases a day.

@Tealightsandd

smoking does kill. And not only the people who smoke. Which is why it is now banned indoors.

So does Covid. And masks indoors help prevent it.

Yet, smoking indoors is not allowed. In case it harms someone else.

But masks indoors are going to be a personal choice. Even although going maskless can harm somebody else.

Also why does it matter if smoking kills? Like you say, smoking is a choice (but not indoors...).

Catching Covid isn't a choice. If it's ok to 'live with' a disease that kills and disables, a disease that gives no pleasure, why isn't it ok to 'live with' smoking (which unlike Covid brings pleasure and tax money).

Why is it bad that smoking kills? We all die of something. Don't smoke so you can die of Covid?

So you're saying that we should have to wear masks forever then, as Covid isn't going anywhere?

There's not much we can do about 100,000 cases a day now, but we could still stop 200,000 cases a day from happening.

But the government has no plans to.

And no plans to tell us how many hospitalisations, deaths and long covid sufferers they expect per million cases.

There are plenty of places in the world where they don't wear masks much now @southeastdweller.

All you need to do is properly combat the virus, and keep cases low, and then you don't need them.

@CrouchEndTiger12

Control the virus.

How? Can you also control the tide? Flu is still around after the 1918 pandemic.

Do people genuinely believe you can control a virus?

Well it helps that so many countries are out there doing it, demonstrating that it can be done.

@LilyPond2

Government has clearly given up on trying to protect vulnerable people for whom the vaccine is less effective, and vulnerable children who are not eligible for the vaccine.

Exactly. It's not even "protect the vulnerable" any more us it? No shielding. Just making it unsafe for people who were advised to Shield to go anywhere at all by allowing unprecedented numbers of cases higher than we've ever seen before.

@PopcornMuncher

They've quoted inflated figures before so they could definitely be doing it again now

No one know how long it will keep doubling for but you don't have to double today's numbers very many times to get past 100,000 cases.

@LawnFever

But if those cases lead to fewer hospitalisations and deaths because of the number of people vaccinated then the number of case numbers isn’t as relevant.

I think they should stop reporting the cases, it’s scare mongering.

Then how could people use their own judgement and practice personal responsibility if they don't know the situation?