Did it seem a bit odd that the tone of today's announcement was so sombre?

[secretintrovert]

Bojo should have been doing his victory dance for freedom day! Instead the three of them looked as miserable as sin. There's trouble afoot methinks. This will be very very temporary

@Beebityboo

I honestly find some of the ways posters talk about the risk to the disabled and vulnerable on this board to be borderline psychopathic. As a disabled person I never really understood just how little of a shit society gave about people like me until Covid. It's been difficult to come to terms with.

As for the restrictions lifting I don't know how I feel. I thought I would feel relief after being terrified for over a year, but mostly I just have this feeling of vague dread (already seeing more reporting on the Lambda variant ). I feel it's inevitable that my family will all catch covid now after being able to avoid it so far, and I can't keep my DC's from living a full and happy life on the chance covid will kill me. I live my life completely day to day now.

Feel completely devastated thinking about all those families out there with CEV children .

Agree with that first paragraph wholeheartedly. Sadly, most people didn't give a shit about the disabled and vulnerable before covid. How many swallow and spout the Tory mantra that the long-term sick and disabled were in fact "scroungers" who should be made to work for their benefits?

I discussed masks with my DH this morning. We're going to continue wearing them, because it's such a simple thing to do. The viral load of just a few asymptomatic people refusing to wear them would be horrendous.

This goes back to the general problem of there being different groups of vulnerable people in society with sometimes opposing interests. And that's the really hard part here. If only all the vulnerable needed the same sacrifices making, it would be much easier to communally suck it up for a set period.

I think a lot of people who say they will continue to wear masks will gradually stop doing so when they become the minority.
I have never been particularly convinced of their efficacy, but wear one when required.
I really hate the effect on social interaction.

There is a difference between not caring and also having the dawning realisation that we are actually very powerless to do anything meaningful in the long run.

At this juncture I think we've given people the best shot possible - but otherwise we may just be delaying the inevitable at a price which harms even more people.

Acknowledging this reality might be percieved as cruel and heartless, but if thats what the extra transmittability means, I think it better to spell this out and try and cushion this - and I think thats what the timing of opening up is about - its ironically about trying to save as many lives as possible although it may look the opposite.

We know that survival rates in hospitals drop when the number of people in hospitals reaches critical mass. This affects those coming in with other illnesses not just covid. The best thing may very well be to try and stagger covid and other issues as best we can to give the clinical vulnerable the best chance possible.

I think thats basically where Whitty is at with this now. Its certainly is where I am.

Is that borderline psychopathic? Or just saying whats happening and why its happening without the euphamisms and political watering down of language.

I'm struggling to think of how you mitigate harms by other methods, keeping in mind that restrictions also tend to have particularly negative effects on the clinically vulnerable themselves.

@Dramallama4 your son can have the vaccine if his clinician supports it. It is set out clearly in the letter that came out to all CEV children in March 2021. Eg my son aged 12 can have it but clinician and I agreed it's not necessary.

[quote Lockdownbear]@Doodlebug71 do you honestly think kids are fully concentrating and paying attention with masks over faces. I think they muffle voices how does that work in a language class?

LOs on the school bus, would you honestly trust 4 year olds to handle them properly and not drop them before sticking them back over there mouths. Would you put one on that you'd dropped?[/quote]
I used to be a teacher. Kids rarely fully concentrate and pay attention in class. Masks don't muffle voices to the extent they'd interfere with a language class. Kids might play up and claim they do. I have a few friends who use different languages. When we've been out walking, the conversation isn't impaired by the wearing of masks.

Interesting that you consider young children to be totally irresponsible. Other countries manage perfectly well with young children in masks.

UK exceptionalism again, I suppose.

Interesting that you consider young children to be totally irresponsible. Other countries manage perfectly well with young children in masks

Which other countries put 4 year olds on school buses, in masks?

Interesting that you consider young children to be totally irresponsible. Other countries manage perfectly well with young children in masks.

UK exceptionalism again, I suppose.

Can you give evidence for 'managing perfectly well' (or even explain how that differs from the OP's suggestion that children are likely to drop/ handle properly their face masks)? Many posters here have admitted they know adults who don't treat their facemasks properly.

Also I suppose it depends what you mean by ‘manage perfectly well’. My family are in a country where young children are wearing face masks. My niece has suffered severe recurrent impetigo round her mouth since the introduction, which her paediatrician has said is due to the mask. They are really struggling with wearing them in the heat. One of my nephew’s friends is completely school refusing as he finds them so difficult. They have the same issues over children playing with them, sticking them in pockets and then putting them back on, wiping their noses on them as we do.

Agree with everything redtoothbrush has said on this thread.

@Doodlebug71 I teach languages and 100% masks do interfere with listening and learning pronunciation. I will continue to wear my mask in the classroom as at the moment I feel it's the better choice but it is disingenuous to suggest they have no negative impact on learning, they do.

@Thewiseoneincognito

Very somber because they know what is coming and that by autumn our restrictions will be harder than ever, so enjoy your freedom days whilst you can. The sensible ones will carry on wearing masks no doubt.

It is a mistake assuming we can simply ‘live with Covid’ without any intervention at all on our part other than vaccines. I hope everyone here recognises what living with Covid means? It’s not quite the retro 2019 level of freedom from face masks, social distancing and unrestricted global travel that Freedom day appears to be.

In short, we can’t live with it ‘untamed’ because the vaccines are not enough to do this, the government know this, so will we soon enough. Over the coming weeks I think we will understand this more clearly as we see the effects from the Delta surge. A surge we mustn’t forget that is happening with social distancing, face masks and capacity limits STILL in place to support the vaccination campaign.

Living with Covid in the UK means accepting we maintain a level of restriction to keep the numbers manageable, otherwise we will find ourselves back at square one sooner than we would like whether that’s from a large autumn winter wave or new vaccine resistant variants, both of which are not ruled out.

The CEV population has been thrown under a bus, so too the elderly ones for whom vaccine efficacy is not as robust as others. Their lives are now on hold more than ever.

**In short, we can’t live with it ‘untamed’ because the vaccines are not enough to do this, the government know this, so will we soon enough. Over the coming weeks I think we will understand this more clearly as we see the effects from the Delta surge. A surge we mustn’t forget that is happening with social distancing, face masks and capacity limits STILL in place to support the vaccination campaign.

Living with Covid in the UK means accepting we maintain a level of restriction to keep the numbers manageable, otherwise we will find ourselves back at square one sooner than we would like whether that’s from a large autumn winter wave or new vaccine resistant variants, both of which are not ruled out.

The CEV population has been thrown under a bus, so too the elderly ones for whom vaccine efficacy is not as robust as others. Their lives are now on hold more than ever**

So what do you suggest they do?

Keep restrictions in place forever and ever?

They’ve got vaccines. They’ve vaccines the majority of the adult population, most of whom would have been fine without a vaccine but the public have played their role in try to prevent the spread.

There is nothing more that can be done. Funny how you miss the fact the kids and teenagers have been thrown under the bus fur the last year and a half- but that doesn’t matter does it? Sod mental health implications eh?

Physical implications of this don’t trump the long term mental health of many people.

You really can't help yourself showing you have no sympathy for others who are in more unfortunate situation than you.
grinning face - how appropriate while commenting some will continue to get sick and die

Do at least try to focus on what I actually wrote rather than how you'd like to spin it; as I'm sure you're aware, the "grin" was about the thigh-rubbing which some posters who obsessively predict disaster will doubtless enjoy

And like most, I've got every sympathy for those who've suffered and died with Covid; again, what I actually suggested was that not every death can be prevented every time, and no amount of sympathising will change that basic fact no matter how much we might wish it did

@Puzzledandpissedoff

Even Neil Ferguson now says that removing restrictions is justifiable

I thought he'd reportedly just said we could now see 200k cases a day?
He really can't seem to help himself, but there'll be thigh-rubbing over that one from certain posters

It's perfectly clear that some will continue to sicken and die with Covid, but then sadly, some were always going to - the mistake was in imagining that everyone could be protected from everything, all the time

I think Stephen Reicher said it could go up to 1m a week

I think Stephen Reicher said it could go up to 1m a week

Well at those rates it wouldn’t take long for the rest of the susceptible population to get it.

Stephen Reicher is clearly a scare mongering ego maniac.

45,000,000 have had at least one dose of the vaccine
5,000,000 have actually been tested positive for the virus, and presumable that is more given we couldn't test for the first wave.

There is probably some crossover in who has had both the vaccine and the virus itself, but let's say there are 48,000,000 who have either had it or been vaccinated, that leaves 18 million people who are at any risk at all of even getting it, never mind being ill with it.

The population of children in the UK is 12 million who we all know are
at such low risk.

Please can we get some perspective.

@Ifitquacks

I think Stephen Reicher said it could go up to 1m a week

Well at those rates it wouldn’t take long for the rest of the susceptible population to get it.

Yes it’s not getting it that’s the issue it’s hospitalisation

So when people talk about high figures for shock value it’s not the right metric

I think Stephen Reicher said it could go up to 1m a week

But surely that's less than Ferguson's projection? Unless my maths has deserted me completely (always possible!!) 7 times 200k a day is 1.4 million per week?

yes, that both he and Ferguson and suggesting these sorts of numbers make it sound less like shock tactics and more like a plausible outcome.

Of course we don't really know what will happen.

The more careful we are, the less likely the figures will go high.

@herecomesthsun

yes, that both he and Ferguson and suggesting these sorts of numbers make it sound less like shock tactics and more like a plausible outcome.

Of course we don't really know what will happen.

The more careful we are, the less likely the figures will go high.

Yes but people are reacting to these figures with shock

It’s not the best metric to look at

I’m not saying the figures are wrong more that people are using them in a way to make people feel more fearful imo

@hamstersarse

Stephen Reicher is clearly a scare mongering ego maniac.

45,000,000 have had at least one dose of the vaccine
5,000,000 have actually been tested positive for the virus, and presumable that is more given we couldn't test for the first wave.

There is probably some crossover in who has had both the vaccine and the virus itself, but let's say there are 48,000,000 who have either had it or been vaccinated, that leaves 18 million people who are at any risk at all of even getting it, never mind being ill with it.

The population of children in the UK is 12 million who we all know are
at such low risk.

Please can we get some perspective.

You could get a better perspective if your maths and assumptions weren't all so wrong.

Those 48M with at least one dose CAN get the Delta variant.

Of course they are being used to scare people, that much is obvious.

The last time we had case numbers at this rate was in Mid December and 450 people a day were dying.

Now it is ~20.

Doesn't make it a great headline though does it.

@hamstersarse

Of course they are being used to scare people, that much is obvious.

The last time we had case numbers at this rate was in Mid December and 450 people a day were dying.

Now it is ~20.

Doesn't make it a great headline though does it.

Exactly.

It’s really bad form to keep stirring in this way

It’s not the whole picture

25th Jan, when cases were similar, but on the way down, there were over 1100 deaths.

If people can't see this time it is different, it is hard to see how we will ever get out of this collective madness

@claralara42

It's so hard to understand where you are coming from. Even the first dose prevents serious illness for most people. You do remember the big launch around first doses?!?

All the very vulnerable are double vaccinated

I am one of the single dosed, I assure you I will be fine if I get THE DELTA