Did it seem a bit odd that the tone of today's announcement was so sombre?

[secretintrovert]

Bojo should have been doing his victory dance for freedom day! Instead the three of them looked as miserable as sin. There's trouble afoot methinks. This will be very very temporary

It's really not ok the way CEV and CV children are being overlooked the vaccine isn’t approved for use on children yet or do you want CEV children to be lab rats for this?!

@Tealightsandd

His actions are going to kill and disable a lot of people.

Sombre is appropriate.

Do you feel the same about the thousands that die of flu each year? Or is that ok? Is it just covid deaths that should generate restrictions?

Kinda felt like Johnson was clapping his hands clean and then saying something along the lines of. "Ah feck it, you're on your own now lads and lasses."

The medical community need to take a (swift) call on what’s more dangerous to CEV under 16s, vaccines or Covid. It’s not an easy call, but they are the ones best placed to do it.

Keeping a healthy population under long term restrictions was never going to be a realistic approach long term.

I dont think there was anything hidden in this I think it was clear that the Delta variant is such that suppressing it down to nothing is next to impossible given where we are. So it has become a choice as to when we have this wave. We have held off to get as many double vaccinated and single vaccinated as we can. And the summer is a much better time to do it rather than winter.

In effect we could actually cause more damage by trying to suppress it both with the implications of lockdown and the fact it would simply push it into a winter that is expected to have not only Covid but Flu and RSV

This was never going to be victory dance freedom day because this isnt a war we have won. We have simply reached the point where the best choice out of some fairly stark choices is to remove restrictions and see what has happened. And there will be consequences due to this in terms of death and long covid.

As to why masks disappeared - I think that one was a political move, I am not sure Boris Johnson was willing to risk being voted against. The message was though very much wear it. In some ways though maybe common sense and personal choice is needed. Also though business can make them mandatory - airlines already have

@OnlyFoolsnMothers

It's really not ok the way CEV and CV children are being overlooked the vaccine isn’t approved for use on children yet or do you want CEV children to be lab rats for this?!

If 12+ the safety tests have been done.

Am not entirely sure they have much choice, TBH. I was at LEGOLAND today - no one was mask wearing/ social distancing and I had the distinct impression everyone had given up.

In fairness, I have never been convinced by the necessity of masks outdoors, so had every sympathy. I wore mine as I'm an obedient type but wasn't too worried about others not doing so.

Very pleased the whole bubble thing seems to be going in schools, though - I remain somewhat aggrieved that I can't go to sports day yet the tube will be clogged up with people going to Wembley on Weds.

we will just have to get used to the elderly and vulnerable dying earlier than they would have in the pre covid era.

A hell of a lot younger in the case of the many millions of young vulnerable. Their tax is good enough to take, so should steps be taken to protect their lives.

If doesn't take much to wear a mask. People in East Asian countries have done it for years.

Remind me why people are told not to exercise their personal choice to smoke? Ah that's it. It shortens your life.....

Hmmm. I have a suggestion. Covid kills, gives no pleasure, and costs the economy. Smoking, on the other hand, reduces the risk of needing a care home, is enjoyable (for many), and brings in a net gain to the economy.

I think Boris just looks like he's had enough now. Whatever he does he will be criticized, so today I felt like he was kind of saying it's up to us now - choose what risks you want to take, choose whether you want to wear a mask, go to a concert etc but face the consequences. I just hope most people are sensible.

Agree with @RedToothBrush and @GreenWillow. Sombre was entirely appropriate given the context.

I wonder how many people who say " we have to get used to the elderly and CEV dying earlier than they would have pre covid" are CEV or elderly.

People are so blaise about other people's deaths, loads of people say there needs to be more help for the most vulnerable in society through care, benefits etc buy on the other hand are OK with them dying so they can go down the pub or to the theatre without a mask.

@OnlyFoolsnMothers

It's really not ok the way CEV and CV children are being overlooked the vaccine isn’t approved for use on children yet or do you want CEV children to be lab rats for this?!

It is approved. By medical authorities around the world. Including those in the UK. The MRHA has approved it for over 12s.

Probably because they know a new UK born variant is more likely than not given the horrible new infection rates, and they want to pull in as much tax/public approval as possible before the death rates rocket again.

@OnlyFoolsnMothers the Pfizer is approved for over 12’s in the UK. It was approved at the beginning of June. Why isn’t it being given to vulnerable teenagers?

@Tealightsandd thanks, it’s beyond belief now. I’m happy the world is opening up, I’m happy people can get back out there and enjoy life again, I don’t want restrictions.
I just want vulnerable kids jabbed so they can get back to enjoying their lives like other children will be this summer.

@FrustratedTeddyLamp

I wonder how many people who say " we have to get used to the elderly and CEV dying earlier than they would have pre covid" are CEV or elderly.

People are so blaise about other people's deaths, loads of people say there needs to be more help for the most vulnerable in society through care, benefits etc buy on the other hand are OK with them dying so they can go down the pub or to the theatre without a mask.

Exactly. My dh is CEV, he is also the father of four teenagers/ young adults who need him around and adore him. He is the main breadwinner and years off retirement age. We have covid in the house at the moment and despite him being double jabbed we are scared to death.

@GiantToadstool

Winter is coming...

God it’s like some people can’t get enough of it.

People are so blaise about other people's deaths, loads of people say there needs to be more help for the most vulnerable in society through care, benefits etc buy on the other hand are OK with them dying so they can go down the pub or to the theatre without a mask.

There have always been loads of things we could do to minimise deaths, but don’t.

It’s always been a trade off.

I didnt watch it, but read some of whittys comments and they are sobering really. He basically said we"ve got to the point where you arent going to change the numbers that die by pushing opening up to winter but thats not a huge comfort if its one of your loved ones that gets very ill or dies. Its a weird feeling. We've everu4thing we can at the virus and we just have to accept its there

I dont think the vaccines for under 18s is as clear cut though as just saying give it to them - a 13 year old boy death is currently being investigated and I imagine the JCVI would want to see the outcome of that.

I think they were burnt a little bit but going full throttle on the AZ vaccine and the confusion over that (even though I think they were right) and it is clear the message is we want to give it more time to properly see what the risks involved are.

I suspect that the risks for CEV children in particular will be found to be more for Covid than having the vaccines but I think we do need to have a proper risk assessment for this to ethically give it to children,

@FrustratedTeddyLamp

I wonder how many people who say " we have to get used to the elderly and CEV dying earlier than they would have pre covid" are CEV or elderly.

People are so blaise about other people's deaths, loads of people say there needs to be more help for the most vulnerable in society through care, benefits etc buy on the other hand are OK with them dying so they can go down the pub or to the theatre without a mask.

Ah that's because it's Other People.

The WHO advice for opening up, learning to 'live with' a disease that kills and causes long term disability, is to do so - but with simple and easy precautions. Including masks in poorly ventilated enclosed spaces.

So blase about mass Covid deaths. And yet at the same time oh so very anti smoking. Despite smoking, unlike Covid, contributing to the economy.

Why doesn't the UK allow assisted suicide. Life is precious they say... Oh wait...
If we must learn to 'live with' something that kills, people should also be allowed the personal choice of a compassionate and humane death.

I hope your DH recovers well @Babyroobs

Dramallama4 Dd is vulnerable too but is old enough to be doubled jabbed. We still don’t know how she’ll be if she gets it. It is a disgrace that they haven’t vaccinated the 12-15 year olds yet, particularly the vulnerable ones.

He basically said we"ve got to the point where you arent going to change the numbers that die by pushing opening up to winter but thats not a huge comfort if its one of your loved ones that gets very ill or dies. Its a weird feeling

It’s not, but they’re realising that restrictions cause as many medical issues as they solve in the longer term. Having no flu season last year means lots more vulnerability to flu this year and it’ll be more difficult to predict strains for vaccination.

@TheKeatingFive

He basically said we"ve got to the point where you arent going to change the numbers that die by pushing opening up to winter but thats not a huge comfort if its one of your loved ones that gets very ill or dies. Its a weird feeling

It’s not, but they’re realising that restrictions cause as many medical issues as they solve in the longer term. Having no flu season last year means lots more vulnerability to flu this year and it’ll be more difficult to predict strains for vaccination.

Yep 👍

@nether

The CEV (that's 2.5 million people) have been left high and dry.

Agree with what Keir Starmer and the unions are saying

And the alternative is?

At the point that we've done vaccines there is an issue.

The clinically vulnerable are going to have to step out the door at some point. They can't go back to a pre-covid era and they can't be protected indefinitely from Delta or its subsequent variants.

That leaves an issue we have to face up to as brutal as it is - there is only so much we can protect some of the clinical vulnerable going forward.

For some the vaccine will work. Great. Fantastic. Amazing. This is a victory. For others, treating covid with the knowledge we now have will work. Again brilliant. This is progress from 18 months ago. For others there isn't a solution and to be blunt, it could just be a matter of time as covid is a permanent feature of life now.

Your political alignments and leanings won't change this.

We could continue shutting down indefinitely but that has other health consequences - often shouldered by the most clinically vulnerable anyway.

I wish there was a magic wand that made this not true. But I genuinely dont think there is one beyond wishful thinking and the scientists know this.

Speaking honestly and openly about this is gut wrenchingly awful. You aren't going to get many doing it. Instead its euphemisms like 'learning to live with covid'. But ultimately its about how covid has an impact on life expectancy in a negative way and humans are relatively powerless to minimise this, even in developed countries with the medical knowledge we have.

I don't know there is a way to sugar coat this.

I don't think this is 'throwing people under the bus'. It a reflection of how the world is different.

There is no magic solution to time warp or erase covid instantly.