Vaccine.. another sad story

[BountyIsUnderrated]

I've just read the below article, one little boy left without a mother and the poor father left alone to raise him.

There have been so many stories about this happening I don't know what to feel anymore.. I've been vaccinated myself but I can see why people are scared of the AZ.

It's rare yes but I don't think that would be very reassuring if someone I loved died... Is this the cost of protecting against covid?

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9732583/Mother-three-47-dies-AstraZeneca-Covid-jab-caused-blood-clots-brain.html

The government have totally ignored this up until now. I think countries like Sweden aspirate the needle now.

@overtherubicon, @roguetomato

you cannot say categorically state that people who suffer from AZ blood clots would be more likely to get clots from Covid. This is false logic. We just don't know.

This is what is so awful about the situation ... no one is able to define risk facts for getting AZ blood clots, and likewise the outcomes of Covid seem to vary tremendously although we do know some risk factors in relation to Covid - being old, being overweight etc.

@MynahBird

My sister's MIL is currently in a coma with encephalitis caused by the AZ vaccine. All other potential causes have been rules out and this is the working diagnosis the ICU doctors are currently going with. Very poor prognosis. Horrific.

I'm so sorry to hear that. It's just so appalling for the families going through this. My friends father died recently of a blood clot to the brain (age 74) but I haven't heard if they've considered a link to AZ and I don't want to ask.

@PoseyFlump
A distant relative mid 60s died in April from a blood clot. Not one question has been asked about whether it was within the timeframe of her second AZ (which it was). Simply dismissed as one of those things as she hadn't been in the best of health

[quote neveradullmoment99][/quote]
A key argument against this theory (that injection into a blood vessel instead of muscle leads to the AZ CVST complications) is that it doesn't explain the distribution - that it is more common in young women.

Young women have less muscle mass than young men, but both have far greater muscle mass than older people

Not an expert by any means, but I suspect that it will probably be argued that this just increases the chances of it happening at all and that younger people are still disproportionately likely to be affected due to their age (or other factors). While the majority are women, it's still only about 60% to 40% in the UK, which given the small numbers involved could still just be statistical chance.

[quote NotSoLongGoodbye]@PoseyFlump
A distant relative mid 60s died in April from a blood clot. Not one question has been asked about whether it was within the timeframe of her second AZ (which it was). Simply dismissed as one of those things as she hadn't been in the best of health[/quote]

It's very worrying. It can't be easily explained away in the young with no questions asked. I know people who have experienced a lot of joint pain recently too.

It's only the UK that is still using AZ in under 60s. I find that worrying

@Cindy974

TheDailyCarbunkle

Everything you said is absolutely spot on and it scares me how blinkered people are.

For me I'm young and healthy and I might catch covid I might not and if I do and become seriously ill well thats just unfortunate and bad luck. However if I purposefully get a substance injected into my body that causes long term/short term issues or even death thats my fault and the blame lies on me. Id rather take my chances with the might or might not of covid rather than going out of my way to get an injection into my body that I don’t feel I need.

Still pushing the anti vaxx agenda I see.

Sorry if this has been said already, but one thing that always puzzles me (and maybe I'm being daft) is when people say the risks if someone caught Covid are far higher than the risks if someone is vaccinated, but I always think that's a biggish if. Because, surely there's a good chance someone wouldn't catch Covid to begin with? Or already have had it without knowing, and have natural immunity already? I'm trying to discover if statisticians have worked out the risk of vaccine vs risks of nothing happening at all? I've only seen risk of vaccine against risk of Covid infection. But that works on the assumption you're definitely going to get symptomatic Covid, iyswim? Does anyone know what the odds of catching Covid with a significant viral load are to begin with? Though I realise that'll massively vary depending on lifestyle and environment etc

Another thing that is strange about the quotes reasons for getting the vaccine is that avoiding long covid is cited as a reason to get it by many reputable sources. As far as I’m aware none of the vaccine trials had long covid symptoms as an outcome measure, so how can this be a reason to get the vaccine?

DOI fully vaccinated but extremely worried about the moves to reduce bodily autonomy and choice over this. As far as I can see if at low risk of covid, it’s quite finely balanced and therefore should be up to the individual concerned to decide.

@wanderingfruitwonderer

Excellent question. Fortunately scientists have answered this. The actual “absolute risk reduction” of these vaccines confirms your suspicions.

Absolute Risk Reduction

• AstraZeneca: 1.3%
• Moderna: 1.2%
• J&J: 1.2%
• BioNTech: 0.84%

Information Source:

www.thelancet.com/journals/lanmic/article/PIIS2666-5247(21)00069-0/fulltext

It's only the UK that is still using AZ in under 60s. I find that worrying

That’s not true, it’s available in ROI for under 60s

@WanderingFruitWonderer

Sorry if this has been said already, but one thing that always puzzles me (and maybe I'm being daft) is when people say the risks if someone caught Covid are far higher than the risks if someone is vaccinated, but I always think that's a biggish if. Because, surely there's a good chance someone wouldn't catch Covid to begin with? Or already have had it without knowing, and have natural immunity already? I'm trying to discover if statisticians have worked out the risk of vaccine vs risks of nothing happening at all? I've only seen risk of vaccine against risk of Covid infection. But that works on the assumption you're definitely going to get symptomatic Covid, iyswim? Does anyone know what the odds of catching Covid with a significant viral load are to begin with? Though I realise that'll massively vary depending on lifestyle and environment etc

This was given as part of the presentation Whitty did at the press conference where they discussed offering Pfizer to under 30s. There were 3 different slides showing the risk of getting the vaccine against the risk of getting covid and having problems for different rates of Covid. There was one for low rates of covid I.e. 100/100k). They used the low rate one to make the decision because that’s where the rates were at the time. Given the current rates in the U.K. I suspect we’re well past the point where the likelihood of problems is about equal and is firmly tipped in favour of getting the AZ vaccine of it’s the only one you can get.

@AvaGardener that's interesting, and very clearly explained. Thank you