What is the actual law around isolating children (ie when a school bubble closes)?

[rubbishatballet]

DC1 (7) now on second isolation period on the trot due to bubble bursting, having had two days back at school in between. No symptoms but will not have been able to leave the house for change of scenery or proper exercise for four weekends in a row. Assuming we're following the rules...

BUT I am heartily sick of this now. Between the four of us we have had 12 periods of self isolation over the last year, including when we all had Covid. Most vulnerable people are now vaccinated and I feel incredibly angry that young children's lives and education are still being so interrupted.

I know the DC obviously can't go to school while a bubble is closed but theoretically if we were to just do our own thing outside of that time, including sorting out alternative childcare on a risk assessed basis (trying to do our NHS management jobs and home school is just a complete shit show) would we just be going against guidance or actually breaking the law? Pretty sure test and trace are not informed when a school bubble closes - we have never been contacted. Interested to know how much trouble we could potentially be in if found out, although not sure I actually care that much anymore anyway.

@MrsKellySeveride I know police officers who’ve broken the rules.

Op, so many people are past the point of blindly following the rules now and exercising some common sense instead, I don’t think even if the DC did tell people what they’d been up to, that a) they’d be the only ones and b) anyone would take it any further. Regarding the house in the background, the teacher surely isn’t going to remember or even know whose house looks like what!

@MrsKellySeveride I work closely with our trust's Medical Director (who is also legally responsible for Infection Prevention and Control) and he is very sceptical/concerned about the rules around isolation of symptomless children and vaccinated adults that he believes are increasingly pointless but which are starting to have a big impact on the running of the hospital. The safety of the services we provide are now much more likely to be compromised by staffing issues than any Covid infection risk.

I'm quite clear on what his personal view would be if I were caught breaking the rules in this scenario and equally confident I would not face any sanctions from my NHS employer.

I totally understand the frustration if football players in the same teams don't need to isolate and government officials (Gove) Can avoid test daily instead of isolate and our own Health secretary Cockwomble can even stick to the rules he came up with, then to fuck if they think it's OK to keep isolating healthy kids all the time. I'm not keeping my dc indoors for 10 days straight for nobody. Enough is enough!

I'm not sure actually. It's a good question. If I were you I'd arrange alternative childcare as long as they know the circumstances and are being clean etc what else are you meant to do? You can't go on like like indefinitely

@Delatron

Another policy that penalises women and children mainly (I know many DHs are helpful but still) it’s normally the woman rushing around trying to find childcare (or take more time off) meanwhile the men in government are shagging away and getting their football fix.

Hear hear!

The study hasn’t been done. They said the results would apply to Moderna as same technology but expected it to be different for AZ/J&J. Doesn’t necessarily mean worse though. Just that they can’t apply the results to those vaccines.

@rubbishatballet

I have had to take my extra (given to all staff to recognise preceding nightmare year) 'wellbeing day' to cover today 😕

Not much of a wellbeing day for you op! We had Covid and several episodes of isolation last year so I really feel for you. I was trying to home school 2 primary age children, work and look after dh who was unwell with Covid. Two classes from dc school were sent home last week. I know parents are sending children to family members as they need to be in work. I'm sure many others will be doing the same. Many people can't work from home and won't get paid if they aren't in work. Surely now all the vulnerable have now been offered a vaccine this needs to stop.

I work in a school and we have 2 children tested positive so 2 bubbles closed. I finish today at lunchtime so I nipped into the local high street fpr some bits and pieces - saw 3 families out shopping, then another family a bit later out on a bike ride then took my kids to the park after school and saw another family plus the family I saw in the high street. My sister took her pre schoolers to a farm park on Friday and she said it was full of school age kids who were supposed to be isolating. It is supposed to be law to isolate but I think everyone is fed up so more and more families are using isolation periods to have days out do chores etc!

I don’t blame them. It’s not going to be enforced. It’s ridiculous now. If you are sensible and don’t hold parties/sleepovers then outdoor stuff is ok.

I wouldn’t keep my kids inside again.

What makes me furious is that my brother in law can go to Wembley on the back of a negative LFT (which they don’t even have to prove) and my child can’t have an education 😡. And breathe….

@WonderfulSave

What makes me furious is that my brother in law can go to Wembley on the back of a negative LFT (which they don’t even have to prove) and my child can’t have an education 😡. And breathe….

Yes, so much for 'prioritising schools'.

It is ridiculous.

But not all vulnerable have been vaccinated and many vulnerable either can't be vaccinated or will have minimal response to the vaccine.

If we let infection rip, then we're condemning those people (some of them children).

The alternative would be to do things that work to keep infection low - maybe limiting the football matches while infections are high - put money into ventilation in schools, pay people to isolate, proper border controls. We're in this mess because we let Delta in.

It. Is. So. Stupid.

Breathtakingly, jaw-dropping and unbelievably stupid. This country hates children. And their parents.

We sent our y2 back today after 10 days isolation having been a "contact" (another teacher in her year was a confirmed case, which meant whole year group of 90 children had to stay home.) Only to be told that our reception child must now isolate till Monday.

I'm fuming. There's no link anymore between the rules and logic.

The school here (Wales) have to inform our local test and trace team of the close contacts they have identified. However, they can also remove children from this list if they have been added incorrectly; our bus bubble burst last Friday, school rang on Sunday and said my daughter had to isolate, no further info given. Today my daughter finds out from friends that it was the bus bubble… she’s not been using the bus due to trying to reduce ‘bubbles’ and she comes to school early with me instead. Rang school, explained, all good, she’s back in tomorrow and they’ve corrected the test and trace notification. So it can be appealed if incorrect.

@WorldBeatingScum

Unfortunately the main opponents of ending mass self-isolation for school pupils is the teaching unions.

There was a thread on here at the weekend full of teachers saying they would stop sending home whole yeargroups when the GPs reopened their doors to the walk-in sick.

Hardly comparable - healthy children with negative PCR tests versus the actively ill and seeking treatment...

Not to mention some over-16s in sixth forms are now double jabbed if they were in group 4 or 6.

Oh, stop whinging about teachers. We’ve all had enough. I can assure you that the useless unions have no impact at all. Teachers are sick of the whole situation too. We are stuck in rooms full of Covid-spreading children and we have to keep isolating too. We work and we isolate. We work and we isolate. I’m not sure why you are blaming teachers for this any more than I can blame parents. Can you explain your thought process if there is one ?

Also why shouldn’t surgeries be open for business? Healthy children can come down with Covid pretty quickly with Delta. If it’s okay for teachers, it’s okay for vaccinated HCPs and adult patients who should all be fully vaccinated too. What’s good for the goose is good for the gander.

Guidance for close contact of a positive case says: that not all guidance may be possible with children. That's following guidance for close contacts not actual positive cases. That's the loophole if you feel isolation policy is harming you or your children. I will find link in a moment.

www.gov.uk/government/publications/guidance-for-contacts-of-people-with-possible-or-confirmed-coronavirus-covid-19-infection-who-do-not-live-with-the-person/guidance-for-contacts-of-people-with-possible-or-confirmed-coronavirus-covid-19-infection-who-do-not-live-with-the-person#what-to-do-if-you-are-a-contact-of-someone-who-has-tested-positive-for-covid-19

Go to the bit near the end and you will find the bit about
Not all these measures are possible with chikdren but keep following the guidance to the best of your ability

"what to do if you are a contact of someone who has tested positive for Covid" section

@Nettleskeins oooh interesting thank you. Am sure this was the clause (or a similar one) Cummings used last year

Still waiting for @WorldBeatingScum to explain how this is all the fault of teachers…