What is the actual law around isolating children (ie when a school bubble closes)?

[rubbishatballet]

DC1 (7) now on second isolation period on the trot due to bubble bursting, having had two days back at school in between. No symptoms but will not have been able to leave the house for change of scenery or proper exercise for four weekends in a row. Assuming we're following the rules...

BUT I am heartily sick of this now. Between the four of us we have had 12 periods of self isolation over the last year, including when we all had Covid. Most vulnerable people are now vaccinated and I feel incredibly angry that young children's lives and education are still being so interrupted.

I know the DC obviously can't go to school while a bubble is closed but theoretically if we were to just do our own thing outside of that time, including sorting out alternative childcare on a risk assessed basis (trying to do our NHS management jobs and home school is just a complete shit show) would we just be going against guidance or actually breaking the law? Pretty sure test and trace are not informed when a school bubble closes - we have never been contacted. Interested to know how much trouble we could potentially be in if found out, although not sure I actually care that much anymore anyway.

Data in new today says Pfizer and Moderna immunity lasts a lifetime

@Watapalava

Data in new today says Pfizer and Moderna immunity lasts a lifetime

How can they possibly know that yet?

My dd 11 is now on her 4th turn of isolation. My work are not keen for me to take time off again. I don’t t feel she is old enough on her own all day for a week. So I am doing lateral flow tests each day and sending her to grandma who is double jabbed and happy to have her. Needs must but I am whole heartedly sick of it all. It needs to stop

@WorldBeatingScum

Ditto the unions are opposed to the daily testing of close contacts who can remain in school with negative daily tests

Why exactly when teachers are likely to be vaccinated, many double jabbed by now. I want evidence that there is a substantial risk. Where is the investment in ventilation and mitigation of risks in schools and colleges? It just seems like education is not really a priority right now.

The unions oppose it on the grounds that these test are not particularly reliable. Which is exactly what many on these thread who then go on to slag unions off say themselves about the LFTs.

Who will fund these other mitigations and what do they look like to you?

That's the problem @SilverGlitterBaubles there has been no investment in ventilation and mitigation of risks, isolation is really the only reliable thing schools can use

It is getting ridiculous now my dc is on yet another isolation fortunately I can work from home but still it’s the missing out of school and clubs . I get you have to be careful but I’m starting to care less and less and getting fed up of it . My dc schooling and happiness are at the sacrifice for who ?
We’ve all the vaccine and test twice a week too .

There's no mechanism for vaccine acquired immunity to last a lifetime and infection acquired immunity to last 6 months, the immunity comes from the same systems (the durations can be different some people will get a very limited immunity from a light case and potentially longer from a higher "dose" of a vaccine acquired)

@Imnothereforthedrama

It is getting ridiculous now my dc is on yet another isolation fortunately I can work from home but still it’s the missing out of school and clubs . I get you have to be careful but I’m starting to care less and less and getting fed up of it . My dc schooling and happiness are at the sacrifice for who ? We’ve all the vaccine and test twice a week too .

Exactly, isolation again here too & totally fed up of it all.

@Piggywaspushed SIL teacher in the US says that some states are doing a lot of work over the summer on ventilation systems in schools. At DDs school some classrooms barely have functional windows.

www.centerforhealthsecurity.org/our-work/pubs_archive/pubs-pdfs/2021/20210526-school-ventilation.pdf

Yup, so who will fund that here??

It should change in September otherwise there’ll be another year of cancelled exams. It’s just that gav and co can’t be arsed to change anything so close to the summer hols. Children’s well-being means shit to them. Remember last year when selected year groups went back and others got fuck all?

I can’t quote the post but with regards the Pfizer immunity lasting a lifetime they are basing that statement on the fact that the memory b and T cells in lymph nodes are still as high at 4 months as one month. Apparently with most vaccines these peak at 1-2 weeks post vaccine then decline. They then have data for how immunity from those other vaccines lasts over a lifetime so infer from that that the mrna vaccine immunity should last a long time.

@JS87

I can’t quote the post but with regards the Pfizer immunity lasting a lifetime they are basing that statement on the fact that the memory b and T cells in lymph nodes are still as high at 4 months as one month. Apparently with most vaccines these peak at 1-2 weeks post vaccine then decline. They then have data for how immunity from those other vaccines lasts over a lifetime so infer from that that the mrna vaccine immunity should last a long time.

Sounds positive but not from AZ? Or has the same study not been done

@Lemons1571

Do you think it will change in September? I have a horrible feeling that it will not. I’ve lost count now of the amount of times my children have isolated. The schools online provision is incredibly poor.

If this shit show continues I will have to move them to a different school that provides a better standard of remote provision. Also I’m still annoyed my children’s school day ends at 2.30pm. Since when did reducing the school day by a whole 40 minutes help with reducing transmission.

Anyway going off on a tangent now but I hope to god this fucking hideous isolation of full year groups stops in September. I might then be able to get some resemblance of normality back into my working life.

One good bit of news today was that my kids are now entitled to free school meals. Never in a million years thought I would need to claim them but here we are!

@Chillychangchoo I think that's already on the cards

news.sky.com/story/covid-19-changes-to-exams-in-2022-and-beyond-likely-because-of-pandemic-gavin-williamson-tells-mps-12340019

@WorldBeatingScum

Unfortunately the main opponents of ending mass self-isolation for school pupils is the teaching unions.

There was a thread on here at the weekend full of teachers saying they would stop sending home whole yeargroups when the GPs reopened their doors to the walk-in sick.

Hardly comparable - healthy children with negative PCR tests versus the actively ill and seeking treatment...

Not to mention some over-16s in sixth forms are now double jabbed if they were in group 4 or 6.

Please can you link this thread.

Teachers don't generally get to decide when children get sent home.

It wasn't what was said yeah.

I absolutely understand how bad it has been and continues to be for children, however as you are in a position of public service working for the NHS I think it would look very bad if you were seen to be breaking the current government guidelines.

I have taken phone calls from the police informing me when lockdown rules have been broken by NHS staff which I then have to report to the staff member's direct line manager for disciplinary action. We are all accountable for upholding a certain standard when in public service roles, it is what it is.

Not all the vulnerable are vaccinated - some were so unwell following their first vaccination that they were advised to either wait indefinitely or to absolutely not have a second dose, my very vulnerable mother included.

Sorry you're having a rubbish time, but whilst the rules are in place, it's up to us to follow them.

@Chillychangchoo I can understand your frustration and it must be a nightmare with repeat isolations. But, booking and going away on holiday to a caravan site when you're supposed to be isolating is surely inappropriate. Will your children join in with all the activities on site? Pool? Playground etc? There is a real chance they could be positive and the spread could be far and wide, and do it continues. There's one thing taking them out for a walk, being careful not to mix and staying local but being in a holiday park is irresponsible.

I'd bail and go to the caravan site. This isolating stuff is ridiculous. But then, I never tested my kids.

@PennyRoyal

I am totally past the point of caring about any form of social responsibility. If that makes me selfish then so be it. People have now had the option of being vaccinated. We are in a completely different place now.

I think this is the seventh or eight period of self isolation since January for my kids. We have abided by all of the rules. My kids have been provided with a piss poor online provision, they have missed out repeatedly on their football, dance and swimming clubs.

I lost my job back in January (I actually worked in a school and the headteacher didn’t give a shiny shite about my own children’s periods of isolation). I am now on the verge of losing my current job. We have been pushed into poverty and my mother in law has offered us a few days away in a caravan at the seaside.

I’ll risk it…. I don’t fucking give a shit anymore. We are at breaking point.

If that makes me a terrible person then ill roll with that.

I totally agree, Chilly. And you're not alone.

How can all this be enforced? I'd just carry on, tbh
This

@osbertthesyrianhamster

Thank you.