What is the actual law around isolating children (ie when a school bubble closes)?

[rubbishatballet]

DC1 (7) now on second isolation period on the trot due to bubble bursting, having had two days back at school in between. No symptoms but will not have been able to leave the house for change of scenery or proper exercise for four weekends in a row. Assuming we're following the rules...

BUT I am heartily sick of this now. Between the four of us we have had 12 periods of self isolation over the last year, including when we all had Covid. Most vulnerable people are now vaccinated and I feel incredibly angry that young children's lives and education are still being so interrupted.

I know the DC obviously can't go to school while a bubble is closed but theoretically if we were to just do our own thing outside of that time, including sorting out alternative childcare on a risk assessed basis (trying to do our NHS management jobs and home school is just a complete shit show) would we just be going against guidance or actually breaking the law? Pretty sure test and trace are not informed when a school bubble closes - we have never been contacted. Interested to know how much trouble we could potentially be in if found out, although not sure I actually care that much anymore anyway.

There really does need to be a change in the guidance and law come the autumn term. Where I live, we have had relatively low cases but we have a high proportion of school aged children. No surprises that in the past few weeks, bubbles have popped left, right and centre.

In one local primary, a dinner lady has tested positive. 8 classes across years 3-5 have had to self isolate. That's 240 kids. With many parents working in the NHS, local govt, other schools etc etc. This can't go on.

My DS has literally just been sent home after 10 mins in school this morning. I've asked my mum to help. My DH is working away all week and I can't manage without help. Fucking joke. I'm sick of the whole bastard thing now.

Another policy that penalises women and children mainly (I know many DHs are helpful but still) it’s normally the woman rushing around trying to find childcare (or take more time off) meanwhile the men in government are shagging away and getting their football fix.

Totally agree Delatron - another win for the men while the women suck it up.

Isolating here too, fed up with it and so are both mine and DHs work.

Something has got to give - we either vaccinate the kids or we just isolate the ones who actually have it

I have had to take my extra (given to all staff to recognise preceding nightmare year) 'wellbeing day' to cover today 😕

It would really be nice if they could have a bit more outdoor schooling and better ventilation (as well as masks in secondary) to try and reduce spread and thereby reduce isolations.

Like in other countries.

I suspect the risk of actually incurring a huge fine is absolutely minute (is there any data on how many of these fines have been issued?) and absolutely a risk worth taking.

As it's only the kids isolating and not you and husband. Can you pay a baby sitter to come and watch them?

@Delatron

Unless you have a decent garden (and willing children) the impact of these repeated isolations on children’s physical health must be dramatic. If you think about all the other exercise they are normally doing. (Mental too I know)

Enough is enough now. (Especially with the whole 60,000 in Wembley debacle).

I agree the physical -and mental - impact is not being considered. Even in lockdown adults could exercise but children are meant to repeat isolate more often.

Op I don’t know about childcare bubbles but agree with Delatron re women getting hit harder, so do what you need to.

And I agree, rates are sky high in schoolkids. School should be prioritised over football matches.

Perhaps they could spend the equivalent of the money they spent on the G7 on ventilation in schools.

We don't know the long term impact of covid on kids, there's recent evidence even mild cases affect the brain. It's not ok to have a strategy of herd immunity in kids - creating the perfect environments for covid spread in school with no mitigation at all. That's what the government is doing.

My DD has had two periods and or isolating due to close contact at college, we stuck to this but the majority of her classmates did not. It was really difficult but back then there was little vaccines and we did not want to put anyone at risk. Would I put her through this again, absolutely not as I think the impact on her mental health would be far greater than her risk to others. I will test daily, keep a low profile but not leaving the house even for a walk is not happening ever again unless we test positive.

Schools get to say if someone was a close contact - all close contacts have to legally isolate.

If there are a lot of cases the PHE get involved and they may suggest more measures, such as closing the whole school etc. to non close-contacts.

Because the school can only send home close contacts by themselves, they are incentivised to say everyone was a close contact to avoid having mixed in/out classes, having to employ cover teachers etc.

So there's currently a strong financial incentive for schools to make every kid isolate.

But yes, if a school says someone was a close contact, even if they were not even in the school at the time, there is no mechanism to appeal, and it is illegal to not isolate.

I know you would not be so stupid as to do this but a girl in my school who was supposed to be SI decided to have a sleepover. She tested positive the next day so she had to have a longer SI and her 5 friends then had to SI. One of those has now tested positive . Deciding not to SI is not always without consequence.
The parents all tried to lei and wriggle out of it so they were obviously mortified : butt this was not a strong enough emption to stop them from breaking SI in the first place it seems!

They are legal

However no one I know makes their kids isolate purely because they’d never be allowed out

Dd is isolating from school but I’ve let her out everyday and she’s having sleepovers with kids who are also off

She is tested everyday at home

What people may not realise is that T&T are randomly selecting adults to avoid isolation through daily tests - every ‘contact’ I know in last month has been offered this so hasn’t had to isolate

It’s a disgrace that kids aren’t given same offering given I have a draw full of tests upstairs

My da year group is all home but they e all been out everyday at the park or down the shops

@Watapalava why are you letting her have sleepovers?

Because she’s negative everyday as are her friends

If adults can test daily to avoid isolation why can’t kids? Adults are being offered this by T&T right now

If she did have covid ‘incubating’ then the chances of her passing it on must be minuscule if it can’t even show on a test

Also I don’t give two hoots about covid genuinely

Bet her school loves you

Vulnerable are vaccinated
I’d hope given they have degrees, that they are educated enough to realise that

Dh works in as school and has just finished up 10 days isolation. PHE inform the school who has to isolate based on information the school give them about close contacts etc. School simply pass on the instructions to self isolate to parents on behalf of PHE.

There have been two situations in his place. One time a year group bubble was sent home as a precaution, close contacts of the positive student(s) were told to isolate but everyone else was free to go abut their business, they just could not go to school. The other times then a whole year group bubble had to isolate due to the fact that there were multiple cases and the school could not guarantee who the close contacts were.

But why do you need to do sleepovers. Sleepovers are not a necessity

So there's currently a strong financial incentive for schools to make every kid isolate

@sirfredfredgeorge what evidence do you have for this? I disagree. School have to decide close contacts under direction of PHE.

The trouble with making restrictions too tight is that some adults then aren't able to understand what is lower risk or higher risk; so they allow sleepovers, trips to the shops and other daft stuff, while other kids miss out on a walk that couldn't infect anyone. Kids isolating with no symptoms should absolutely be allowed out for walks in my opinion, as should adults for that matter. They could be asked to wear a mask outside until they are able to keep a few metres away from people outside their household; with the big stress being on not being indoors with anyone (or anyone who isn't double jabbed). Double vaccinated people should also be allowed to support families isolating, at their own risk and if everyone takes LFTs.

Anyway, sorry OP but you count as being informed by test/trace so I think it would fall foul of fines.

And not all the vulnerable have been vaccinated as there are many vulnerable children who haven’t been vaccinated. And schools are doing their utmost to protect them and their families whilst there are other parents who don’t give a shit about them or COVID

It's a massive pita. I had to leave my disabled child in the car while I dropped his sister into school. He cant come into contact with anyone so he has to be left alone for school runs. Totally shit but what else is there. No family, no respite care. If I told his Sw he isnt going to come up with help for me and I'm not keeping my other kids off school. DHS boss is a total dinosaur and wont let dh have any time off for the kids

I say do what you have to survive without destroying your life in the process. If it all ends on the 21st July then hopefully this ends too