What is the actual law around isolating children (ie when a school bubble closes)?

[rubbishatballet]

DC1 (7) now on second isolation period on the trot due to bubble bursting, having had two days back at school in between. No symptoms but will not have been able to leave the house for change of scenery or proper exercise for four weekends in a row. Assuming we're following the rules...

BUT I am heartily sick of this now. Between the four of us we have had 12 periods of self isolation over the last year, including when we all had Covid. Most vulnerable people are now vaccinated and I feel incredibly angry that young children's lives and education are still being so interrupted.

I know the DC obviously can't go to school while a bubble is closed but theoretically if we were to just do our own thing outside of that time, including sorting out alternative childcare on a risk assessed basis (trying to do our NHS management jobs and home school is just a complete shit show) would we just be going against guidance or actually breaking the law? Pretty sure test and trace are not informed when a school bubble closes - we have never been contacted. Interested to know how much trouble we could potentially be in if found out, although not sure I actually care that much anymore anyway.

Post script - have literally just had a message that DC2 also now isolating!

Good question

I don’t actually know.

I know that the app is guidance.

I know that a call from test and trace is legally enforceable. As is quarantining from Amber/ Red countries.

However, I am not really sure when it comes to school. I always just assumed that the school just too the place of test and trace but I don’t actually know.

Just to clarify I assumed the school took the place of test and trace just as the school will already have the means to quickly shut down whole year groups/ the school.

It would probably take test and trace ages to call everyone individually.

Can you imagine how swamped test and trace would be last winter for instance.

Pretty sure it’s the law as schools must legally engage with NHS test and trace and inform local health protection teams.
I’m sorry you’re going through it, you must be very fed up.

I thought school take the place of test and trace, as it is PHE who advise them who should be contacted to isolate

@SpringRainbow

Just to clarify I assumed the school took the place of test and trace just as the school will already have the means to quickly shut down whole year groups/ the school.

It would probably take test and trace ages to call everyone individually.

Can you imagine how swamped test and trace would be last winter for instance.

Poor test and trace with their £37 billion.....

Schools act on PHE advice, though often now dine via the LEA.

When schools inform you of self isolation they act on behalf of PHE and it has the same legal bearing as PHE/T&T making the call to you.

It's not the same as the app which is guidance.

Schools normally send home a letter or email which explains this.

Sounds like it would be breaking the law then. Fabulous. What about using previous childcare bubble for childcare?

Although I don't think schools take decision to close - directive comes from PHE for that. So not everything devolved to schools?

How can all this be enforced? I'd just carry on, tbh.

Meanwhile hospital currently bouncing between Opel 4 and internal critical incident (not due to Covid patients) and DH and I both really need to be on site.

Biggest issue for our trust is now number of staff either isolating having been tracked and traced, or with children sent home from school. No one actually with Covid. Don't know how much longer any of us can keep doing this 😞

@osbertthesyrianhamster

How can all this be enforced? I'd just carry on, tbh.

I guess if we're spotted by anyone out of the house with DC they could report? Or obviously different house in background for live lessons? I think those are my two main concerns.

Not everything is the schools decision, no. Well certainly not at my school. Headteacher had to call and was told by PHE/LEA advisors what to do based on the information she had.

We were always told it should be taken in the same way as T&T calling.

I know a lot of our parents did use their childcare support bubbles still as they were treating themselves as one household. Guess that was a risk assessment people made for themselves and the people in their support/childcare bubble.

I know my parents still looked after my nephew - he hasn't a really close contact (or not a close friend/sat next to contact) and they and my sister/BIL are all fully vaccinated. They deemed the risk to be fine for them. They went to his house rather than him leaving the house to go to them.

Did you say you've all had covid? I'd feel pretty relaxed about the extent of the risk you're taking by not fully isolating if you've all had it tbh.

Suspect it will stop with the whole class isolations for next academic term. It will stop when it stops for the general population, which could well be this summer 🤞

By September all adults will have had chance to be double vaccinated so not sure why it would need to continue other than for positive cases and perhaps same household.

@HumpHumpWhale

Did you say you've all had covid? I'd feel pretty relaxed about the extent of the risk you're taking by not fully isolating if you've all had it tbh.

Am completely relaxed about the Covid risk - less relaxed about the risk of facing a £10,000 fine!

Should also have added - biggest risk of all re getting found out is DCs (5 and 7) telling people where they've been and who they've seen!

I've already decided if this happens to DS I'll ask a family member to come to the house to help with childcare (I'm a single parent, can't work from home and can't afford to take 10 unpaid days off). Is that an option? Don't see how anyone would find out.

DS is isolating and my parents are coming round for childcare. Next door is also isolating and has grandma round as are many others. Childcare bubble and double vaccinated. DS does LTF in the morning to check

I think people need to work and the government seem to have magically forgotten this with all the endless isolations.

I would definitely get a willing family member to do childcare or be part of a childcare bubble.
The law on this is not enforceable. They don’t come and knock on your door. The only issue is if someone sees kids out and about and reports. But if they’re at home that wouldn’t happen.

Hopefully this will all stop very soon.

Oh my goodness that’s horrendous to have had that many times you’ve been stuck at home. I really do wonder at this point if the additional protection offered to the community by isolating contacts can possibly outweigh the impact of losing staff from professions like healthcare & supporting infrastructure as well as the impact to the wellbeing of the individuals who have to stay at home. My husband just finished a week isolating for being a close contact at work. Previously when he or my eldest daughter had to stay at home we all did but this time he just did a lateral flow test every other day and I took the kids out all over as usual. I’m no longer prepared to do anything additional than is legally required if doing it will mean the children miss out on something. In your shoes if you have family that will help with childcare would they be willing to stay at home aside from when they are doing pick up/drop off of kids? If so I’d do that. I honestly think the information on the gov website is sufficiently ambiguous about what to do if someone in a childcare bubble is asked to isolate that you could successfully argue you interpreted that you could still use it because you are treated as a single group

Lots of informal childcare arrangements around here. Right or wrong people don't work they don't get paid.
We still go out for a walk around the block when it's quiet. If someone wants to be a a sad bastard and call police says a lot about them. A 10k fine would bankrupt me which I'm not bothered about as my credit rating is in tatters anyway.

Citizen’s Advice say it’s a legal (therefore fineable for breeches) requirement here (see If you don’t self isolate when you should )

www.citizensadvice.org.uk/health/coronavirus-rules-you-need-to-follow/check-if-you-have-to-self-isolate-because-of-coronavirus/

Unless you have a decent garden (and willing children) the impact of these repeated isolations on children’s physical health must be dramatic. If you think about all the other exercise they are normally doing. (Mental too I know)

Enough is enough now. (Especially with the whole 60,000 in Wembley debacle).

@Delatron

Unless you have a decent garden (and willing children) the impact of these repeated isolations on children’s physical health must be dramatic. If you think about all the other exercise they are normally doing. (Mental too I know)

Enough is enough now. (Especially with the whole 60,000 in Wembley debacle).

Totally agree with this. I see it in my own children and those at school.