What is the actual law around isolating children (ie when a school bubble closes)?

[rubbishatballet]

DC1 (7) now on second isolation period on the trot due to bubble bursting, having had two days back at school in between. No symptoms but will not have been able to leave the house for change of scenery or proper exercise for four weekends in a row. Assuming we're following the rules...

BUT I am heartily sick of this now. Between the four of us we have had 12 periods of self isolation over the last year, including when we all had Covid. Most vulnerable people are now vaccinated and I feel incredibly angry that young children's lives and education are still being so interrupted.

I know the DC obviously can't go to school while a bubble is closed but theoretically if we were to just do our own thing outside of that time, including sorting out alternative childcare on a risk assessed basis (trying to do our NHS management jobs and home school is just a complete shit show) would we just be going against guidance or actually breaking the law? Pretty sure test and trace are not informed when a school bubble closes - we have never been contacted. Interested to know how much trouble we could potentially be in if found out, although not sure I actually care that much anymore anyway.

@MarshaBradyo

Oh that’s really tough op that he’s the only one.

Did the school know already or did you tell them?

It was school that told me as it was an after school club bubble. Two days after coming back from his whole class isolation!

It is the current law. However, it is ridiculous. Vaccinated persons (double dose within 12 months) and those who have recovered from Covid within 6 months should not have to isolate again. You say you all had COVID. The government really need to change this urgently or no chance of ever getting on top of those NHS waiting lists. The NHS will crumble even further - like you say, it is overwhelmed by isolations!!!!... Plus the CV/CEV really need to be told to me careful despite vaccines that are not 100 per cent and cases are rising.

@sirfredfredgeorge

School have to decide close contacts under direction of PHE

but PHE just go "who are the close contacts, right send 'em all home" and potentially "oh, that's your umpteenth positive, let's close the school"

They don't go, so Fred never talks to George because they hate each other and sit on the opposite sides of a "covid secure" class room and don't mix so George is fine, however Wilma was snogging Fred behind the bike sheds so she needs to go.

The PHE direction is just "okay, isolate the contacts" or "okay close the school".

That's very true, my child's bubble closed one day before the end of half term, all children told to isolate as they couldn't be sure that they hadn't been in contact but was deemed the adults in the room didn't. I'm not talking tiny kids here It's a blanket approach and doesn't seem to be working

As PP have said, it is the law and means staying at home. DC3 had to self-isolate last week and two days of the preceding one. It was an utter pain for me - I managed to work alongside him when he had live lessons in the morning and then had to start again in the evening. So lots of working until midnight last week.

Was particularly galling as we have an after school nanny two days per week who couldn't come but I still have to pay. Not her fault, but she also wasn't allowed to come.

They have surely got to change this somehow soon, though, it's just not sustainable.

@Passthesauce

Live lessons ? What the hell are they? Mine have been bombed off with the old classic worksheets yet again. Absolutely abysmal, piss poor effort from their school. Beyond embarrassing!!

I’m not isolating mine, no way.

@Chillychangchoo I'd speak to the school on that one - there are certain standards they have to meet for remote education, although not necessarily live lessons. It's the first time they've had live lessons - it wasn't possible in lockdown as there were so many key worker children in and it made a massive difference, both for my son and for my ability to work.

Can quite appreciate why you wouldn't follow it - it's the first time one of the DC has had to self-isolate and not an experience I'd be keen to repeat.

@rubbishatballet it’s a tough situation but has to be done. Also remember the fine is per person not £10k per family. £20k for a walk round the park is bloody expensive!

[quote Chillychangchoo]@Passthesauce

Live lessons ? What the hell are they? Mine have been bombed off with the old classic worksheets yet again. Absolutely abysmal, piss poor effort from their school. Beyond embarrassing!!

I’m not isolating mine, no way.[/quote]
Ds just had to have 10 days off due to Dh testing positive for covid.

His school haven’t even phoned me let alone sent a work sheet out, they set zero work, shocking beyond belief! 😳

[quote Orchidflower1]@rubbishatballet it’s a tough situation but has to be done. Also remember the fine is per person not £10k per family. £20k for a walk round the park is bloody expensive![/quote]
But why does it have to be done? I can't see the justification for it anymore. Plus, as I've set out above, full compliance is not a viable option for us.

I've just been watching footage of the crowds at Wimbledon, yet the NHS (which ultimately this has all been about protecting apparently) still has to accept that tens of thousands plus of its fully vaccinated and healthy workforce are unable to work for 10 day periods? It doesn't make sense.

[quote Orchidflower1]@rubbishatballet it’s a tough situation but has to be done. Also remember the fine is per person not £10k per family. £20k for a walk round the park is bloody expensive![/quote]
Has this happened?

Afai can tell large fines are for situations such as illegal raves, lesser for lower divergence

I doubt anyone has been fined for what op would like to do. The press would have a field day

Plus as op says Wimbledon etc is happening we’re at the next phase of this.

Has a child and parent ever been fined for taking a walk when they were supposed to be in isolation? I very much doubt it.

Put a football shirt on them. They’ll be exempt then.

I'm not keeping my kids indoors if a contact unless they are exhibiting any symptoms. Its frankly ridiculous that SI is still in place given the low levels of hospitalization etc.

@Chillychangchoo

My year 5 and my year 6 have just been sent home again sigh.

Just booking a caravan break right this minute we are not fucking staying at home again !!!!

You don't mean a caravan break away while you should be isolating surely?

Kids likely can’t be fined and as school contact the parents are not required to isolate anyway

My neighbours dc were sent home to isolate 2 days later they had a bouncy castle on the front lawn with loads of parents and other children there.

@PennyRoyal

I sure do!!

I’ve decided I’ve had enough of being a good fucking citizen. Simply not prepared to isolate them again.

We are totally done.

My son (5) had to isolate for 10 days a couple of weeks ago because of a case in his bubble. I kept him at home as I thought I had to but during that time I bumped into one classmate on a walk, one having a swimming lesson at my dd's swim school and one in the supermarket so some people are definitely not probably isolating.

We have seen that when Mr Gove returned from a football game in Portugal and was supposed to isolate, he was conveniently allowed out by being part of a pilot study with daily testing. So what are the results of this pilot study and have any studies been conducted in schools to look at the merits of daily testing rather than self isolating. What is the evidence that isolating is still necessary, how many positive cases result in a positive transmission to other students? Great that they are using Wimbledon and football as test events but why is that not happening for education.

@rubbishatballet

Should also have added - biggest risk of all re getting found out is DCs (5 and 7) telling people where they've been and who they've seen!

Can I just say, that my DC's year group had their third round of isolation a few weeks ago and yes it does suck. But it sucks more knowing that people aren't following the rules and you and your kids are. We had an incident a few week ago where a couple of the isolating DC we're telling their friends they were still doing their clubs outside of school. This sent the kids into meltdown that weren't allowed out. And us parents were really cross too having to console our kids. So please think of others in your actions - as the damage that did to those kids was worse than just being off again.

Unfortunately the main opponents of ending mass self-isolation for school pupils is the teaching unions.

There was a thread on here at the weekend full of teachers saying they would stop sending home whole yeargroups when the GPs reopened their doors to the walk-in sick.

Hardly comparable - healthy children with negative PCR tests versus the actively ill and seeking treatment...

Not to mention some over-16s in sixth forms are now double jabbed if they were in group 4 or 6.

@HumpHumpWhale

Did you say you've all had covid? I'd feel pretty relaxed about the extent of the risk you're taking by not fully isolating if you've all had it tbh.

Not relaxing to the people who have had covid 3 times. Your antibodies can run out by month 6. Those who got it again were also surprised

Ditto the unions are opposed to the daily testing of close contacts who can remain in school with negative daily tests

Your antibodies can run out by month 6

This is pretty bad news for the people vaccinated 6 months ago?