Time to "let it rip"?

[Warhertisuff]

Firstly, let me say that I've been in broadly in favour of restrictions put in place since March 2020, but surely, once we get to 19 July, and we have widespread vaccination coverage (not to mention non-vaccine immunity), we should just go back to normal, completely, and treat Covid like the flu, as effectively that's what we've tamed to be akin to.

No more masks, no more isolation, no more testing and tracing....

Yes, they'll be a spike in cases, and many will get ill, but as long as hospitals aren't overwhelmed and people aren't dying in droves, so be it.

I appreciate that there are those who remain vulnerable even after being double-jabbed, but I'd have thought it would be far better for them to shield themselves for a short period as it rips through and burns out like past epidemics, rather than keeping it simmering and retaining a moderate level of risk over a much longer period as we neither do enough to suppress it completely, nor allow things to open up fully enough for it to rip through in a few weeks.

Then as and when variants do arrive (which they probably will) we'll have an even more comprehensive base level of population immunity.

Given that trials have been successful, and we've had millions of 12-17 year olds vaccinated now in other countries, I would have thought they should be released for use with CEV children at least. Caution is good... Too much caution is counter-productive.

You can’t expect children to keep isolating to protect CEV children it’s just not going to happen, to put that responsibility and guilt on to them is wrong. There is no way of knowing who could give that child the virus, teacher, parent, family member. CEV children need to be vaccinated I agree.

Yes. I thought the argument in this county was that the benefit to the jab was outweighed by the tiny risk of the vaccine as most children are only mildly affected by Covid. But for CEV children that balance obviously tips and the benefit versus risk would be far greater.

What is the update? It must be so frustrating if you have a CEV child to see no plan and no progress with this. (Yet a great plan for 60,000 to descend on Wembley for the football). Clearly the government have been prioritising other areas. (Men, sports, affairs 🙄). I’d be fuming if I had a vulnerable child.

But by 19 July, I don't see any reason for it to continue

July 19th is 3 weeks away. A long time in a pandemic with a highly infectious mutating virus that is new and not as well understood yet as we would like

Data is studied by Gov't/science 24 hours a day. What happens on the 19th of next month depends on the data then

I thought that’s what we were doing with all restrictions being lifted on the 19th July?

Delatron there is no current plan to vaccinate under 16s.
That includes CEV or CV children and children who live with someone who cannot be vaccinated or vaccinated effectively.

CEV and CV children will be left behind if July 19th goes ahead, along with CEV and CV adults who have been double jabbed but can’t rely on vaccines to work for them. Literally leaving behind the millions of people we were protecting in the first place.

Funny how quickly the tide changes once people get bored of being selfless.

@Thewiseoneincognito

CEV and CV children will be left behind if July 19th goes ahead, along with CEV and CV adults who have been double jabbed but can’t rely on vaccines to work for them. Literally leaving behind the millions of people we were protecting in the first place.

Funny how quickly the tide changes once people get bored of being selfless.

What is your solution then? As PP said it can’t be the responsibility of our children to protect them. They need to live their lives now. We also can’t keep restrictions and see state more businesses now the majority are protected.

It’s also not CV that will be left behind, most CV aren’t actually very at risk and have been double jabbed. I’m CV and happy to get in with life. It’s unfortunately a small number of CEV who won’t have much protection from jabs that is the problem, but this has always been the case with other viruses so this is no different.

Does that mean I'm suggesting we throw those immuno-suppressed people "under a bus"? No... All I'm saying is that once we lift restrictions, we might as well allow Covid to burn through quickly rather than attempt to drag out the process by some half-hearted retained mitigation measures that will just prolong the period that those who remain vulnerable are at high risk and feel the need to shut themselves away. If people can mix fully at a weddings from 19 July, then insisting on masks in shops is pretty futile.

What it boils down to, Warhertisuff, is allowing Covid to burn through sector of the population quickly - as that's all there is left, basically - before it finishes up, correct? Never mind that these are people, not numbers. They have lives just like you. They are just as anxious to return to normality as you are. Don't write them off so coldly.

I don’t think there will be much of a choice people won’t carry on following rules which are looking more ridiculous by the day. I feel for parents and children in this situation but you can’t keep people locked up when there is such a small risk to them, it just won’t happen. The CEV children need vaccinating ASAP. Trying to guilt trip people into taking responsibility won’t work I’m afraid.

@TheClaws

What it boils down to, Warhertisuff, is allowing Covid to burn through sector of the population quickly - as that's all there is left, basically - before it finishes up, correct? Never mind that these are people, not numbers. They have lives just like you. They are just as anxious to return to normality as you are. Don't write them off so coldly.

I'm not writing anyone off... Unless we continue with restrictions forever, we will have to let Covid burn its way through eventually. Either we go for a long, drawn out slow burn as we apply half-hearted restrictions, meaning CEV children remain at risk for a longer period, or we get it over with... Yes, the CEV who remain at risk despite be vaccine may choose to isolate whilst this happens, but surely that's better than having to isolate for months whilst we stretch this thing out?

To clarify as it seems to be repeatedly ignored and misrepresented: I want the CEV to get their lives back as soon as possible too! I just don't believe drawing out restrictions will achieve that. How could it?

What exactly do those that want restrictions to continue hope to achieve?

@justanotherneighinparadise

I thought that’s what we were doing with all restrictions being lifted on the 19th July?

That's what I thought too... But I read so much about "oh, but we'll surely still have to continue with masks or (add restriction of choice)" that I started this thread... It seems some have the mindset to continue restrictions for ever.

Op - remember for some people, this past year and a bit has been an improvement on their life before.

Those who have enjoyed this year and prefer the restricted lifestyle are a minority, but my god they are loud in defending it and trying to force things to stay this way.

@MargosKaftan

Op - remember for some people, this past year and a bit has been an improvement on their life before.

Those who have enjoyed this year and prefer the restricted lifestyle are a minority, but my god they are loud in defending it and trying to force things to stay this way.

I don't think any random Mumsnet posters have the ability or intention to "force" anything.

Oddly, government makes those decisions without consulting us.

We're all just expressing our opinion and frustration.

Yes, the CEV who remain at risk despite be vaccine may choose to isolate whilst this happens, but surely that's better than having to isolate for months whilst we stretch this thing out?

It really isn't, because that's several million people, who will need to cut themselves off because outdoors becomes too dangerous. Even now, with shielding paused, the guidance is still at a higher level of precaution for the CEV. But they and their households still need an income, to shop for food and other items, to see a doctor and get medicines, and for their DC to be educated (or receive an education themselves if younger CEV).

It isutterly shit to be CEV, and the comparative freedoms we have now, through phased lifting are very welcome and I really don't think people want to see it lost.

And of course the CEV isn't a static group. Any one of us is just one lump away from being CEV for a year or more. How would you like to be in the shoes of someone who, on getting the worst news of their life, also has to sever contact with their family and friends because a disease that be controlled to an extent that makes going out still possible, has instead been allowed to 'let rip' and is circulating at a higher level?

Especially as no-one knows for how long wild immunity lasts, let alone vaccine induced.

It's very convenient to allow others to suffer, and for longer. But that doesn't make it right.

It seems some have the mindset to continue restrictions for ever

You've missed out the middle ground option of continuing for as long as it is the most humane thing to do

@nether

It seems some have the mindset to continue restrictions for ever

You've missed out the middle ground option of continuing for as long as it is the most humane thing to do

The middle ground option is destroying a lot of lives and livelihoods.

I may be misunderstanding this but the vaccines work for many CEV? There’s a small number they don’t work for? My CEV very cautious FIL is relaxed now he’s had his 2 jabs. These are the people the vaccine is protecting.

Talking on here it’s as though the vaccine doesn’t work for any CEV people and that’s not true.

It must be very worrying if you think even with a vaccine you’re not protected. But many vulnerable are now. So for that small amount of people the vaccines don’t work for, we keep restrictions for how long? Whilst many businesses are going bust by the week.

(And yes I know CEV children can’t have a vaccine).

@Delatron

I may be misunderstanding this but the vaccines work for many CEV? There’s a small number they don’t work for? My CEV very cautious FIL is relaxed now he’s had his 2 jabs. These are the people the vaccine is protecting.

Talking on here it’s as though the vaccine doesn’t work for any CEV people and that’s not true.

It must be very worrying if you think even with a vaccine you’re not protected. But many vulnerable are now. So for that small amount of people the vaccines don’t work for, we keep restrictions for how long? Whilst many businesses are going bust by the week.

(And yes I know CEV children can’t have a vaccine).

No you’re not misunderstanding, they DO work for many. The issue is they’re more likely to not work for CV or CEV than say a healthy 60 year old, so those people still have to be very careful. BJ even said this in his remarks on extending the June date that more elderly and vulnerable will succumb to this despite vaccination.

That’s the situation with mitigating measures in place. Once the cases get higher and we loosen restrictions the game changes for the CEV and CV because it’s a gamble whether or not they will be protected and their chances of infection rise significantly. That’s not even taking into account the CEV people who can not take vaccines as well as the children.

@nether

Yes, the CEV who remain at risk despite be vaccine may choose to isolate whilst this happens, but surely that's better than having to isolate for months whilst we stretch this thing out?

It really isn't, because that's several million people, who will need to cut themselves off because outdoors becomes too dangerous. Even now, with shielding paused, the guidance is still at a higher level of precaution for the CEV. But they and their households still need an income, to shop for food and other items, to see a doctor and get medicines, and for their DC to be educated (or receive an education themselves if younger CEV).

It isutterly shit to be CEV, and the comparative freedoms we have now, through phased lifting are very welcome and I really don't think people want to see it lost.

And of course the CEV isn't a static group. Any one of us is just one lump away from being CEV for a year or more. How would you like to be in the shoes of someone who, on getting the worst news of their life, also has to sever contact with their family and friends because a disease that be controlled to an extent that makes going out still possible, has instead been allowed to 'let rip' and is circulating at a higher level?

Especially as no-one knows for how long wild immunity lasts, let alone vaccine induced.

It's very convenient to allow others to suffer, and for longer. But that doesn't make it right.

There are not several million people for whom the vaccine is so ineffective they will have to shield to avoid catching Covid... that's simple scaremongering, and anti-vax propaganda.

@Warhertisuff 2.2 million were asked to shield. They’re the ones with a higher risk of potential issues. It’s not scaremongering it’s fact.

@nether

It seems some have the mindset to continue restrictions for ever

You've missed out the middle ground option of continuing for as long as it is the most humane thing to do

The middle ground helps no one at the moment... It's a no-man's land where the CEV aren't safe and sections of the economy lie broken.

just thought I'd point out the last two waves in the UK didn't "burn out", they were supressed with lockdown and other measures

Letting coronavirus "rip through" the population does not end the situation quicker, it will just continue circulating, gaining mutations and allowing new variants to emerge, killing a lot of people and causing long term effects in many others. This was explained, at length, when people were pushing for the GBD.

Literally every credible expert has explained the need for easing restrictions slowly, whilst vaccinating as many people as possible, in order to prevent another huge wave that will lead to a hugely damaging national lockdown. It's been 18 months and the same arguments just crop up again and again!

It's been 18 months and the same arguments just crop up again and again!

Yep.

Meanwhile, with a peak of the current wave expected to occur in early August, it seems hardly the best time to 'let it rip'...

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