Time to "let it rip"?

[Warhertisuff]

Firstly, let me say that I've been in broadly in favour of restrictions put in place since March 2020, but surely, once we get to 19 July, and we have widespread vaccination coverage (not to mention non-vaccine immunity), we should just go back to normal, completely, and treat Covid like the flu, as effectively that's what we've tamed to be akin to.

No more masks, no more isolation, no more testing and tracing....

Yes, they'll be a spike in cases, and many will get ill, but as long as hospitals aren't overwhelmed and people aren't dying in droves, so be it.

I appreciate that there are those who remain vulnerable even after being double-jabbed, but I'd have thought it would be far better for them to shield themselves for a short period as it rips through and burns out like past epidemics, rather than keeping it simmering and retaining a moderate level of risk over a much longer period as we neither do enough to suppress it completely, nor allow things to open up fully enough for it to rip through in a few weeks.

Then as and when variants do arrive (which they probably will) we'll have an even more comprehensive base level of population immunity.

I’m not worried, I’ve been carrying on as normal as possible the whole time, never caught it, I’m double vaccinated now so even less likely. Most of Europe are letting in double vaccinated travellers.

Some very frail or very ill double jabbed folk are sadly going to die covid or no covid as with any other infectious disease or morbidity. The truth is we are going to have to live with covid we simply cannot lock down till infinity is the risk is mainly mitigated which is what the figures are thankfully revealing on a daily basis.

Well yes it's obvious you're not worried about Other People dying, becoming long term disabled and unable to work, and the increased pressures on the NHS.

Most of Europe is placing much stricter restrictions on UK travellers than on other lower risk countries. Other places, like Hong Kong have banned entry. We have eye deserved status of a high risk region.

Your normal is clearly very different from real normal.

Do you have a link please @bollihigh

Or are you saying that parents of schoolage children - people in their 50s - are 'very frail'.

Unless you've seen new data, all we've been told is 'most' of the double vaccinated deaths have been 50+. So hardly very elderly.

What we need to know is, is it just a coincidence that more over 50s had AZ?

We need a vaccine breakdown for the deaths.

What we do know is that data indicates minority ethnic groups are being harder hit - both deaths and Long Covid.
So lifting all restrictions, if data suggests it's not yet safe to so, could be construed as a racist act. Knowing who's more at risk and then taking action known to increase their risk.

It doesn’t matter what you or I think, people want to get back to normal, it’s already happening, people aren’t staying at home anymore, London was packed last Sunday, people are out and about, they’re not going about there day thinking they might get long Covid or bodies are going pile up because they have come out. You can’t put that guilt and threat on people, it won’t work unless it effects them.

Not saying about anyone on this thread but having seen the racist imagery and far right links on the 'freedom' shuffles, it might also explain why some people are not worried about failing to suppress and contain.

Of course they're thick as well as racist. Because higher risk to other groups isn't the same as no risk to them (particularly with regards Long Covid). Even if they think that's what it means.

And alongside ethnic minorities, another group listed as higher risk for Long Covid is...women.

Yes people want to get back to normal.
So it's a shame other people want to delay that return.

Because lifting restrictions when there's still huge risk means the opposite of getting back to normal.

But that's the UK for you. Well earned status as a 'world beating' high risk country.

Meanwhile other countries, that suppress and contain, really will get back to normal. Unlike the UK.

'Great' Britain.

So now your calling people racist and thick for wanting to carry on with their lives 🤷‍♀️ It doesn’t matter what names you call people they want to just get on with it now, it’s already happening, it doesn’t even seem like we’re in lockdown anymore.

@Tealightsandd

What we do know is that data indicates minority ethnic groups are being harder hit - both deaths and Long Covid. So lifting all restrictions, if data suggests it's not yet safe to so, could be construed as a racist act. Knowing who's more at risk and then taking action known to increase their risk.

I haven't the least doubt this will be construed; ditto if ethnic minorities who've declined vaccination are still subject to some restrictions along with anyone else who's refused

However choices, no matter how complex, have consequences - though it's always been interesting to read the insults flung at jab refusers, then to see it all go quiet if anyone asks if they apply to all

Well what would you call them Baileys?
Have you not seen the racist imagery on those marches? There's lots of footage.

I see many black people on marches, BLM for one. I see ethnic minorities walking round London, on the tube, trains with no masks, so no it’s not just racists that are actually carrying on with their lives, you stay at home if you like but there are millions of people who are going about there day not worrying about Covid.

@Tealightsandd

Not saying about anyone on this thread but having seen the racist imagery and far right links on the 'freedom' shuffles, it might also explain why some people are not worried about failing to suppress and contain.

Of course they're thick as well as racist. Because higher risk to other groups isn't the same as no risk to them (particularly with regards Long Covid). Even if they think that's what it means.

And alongside ethnic minorities, another group listed as higher risk for Long Covid is...women.

Ethnic minorities are are badly affected by lockdown too, more likely to wirk in low paid jobs that's aren't secure and women as well by being the ones who do most of childcare and homeschooling when kids have to isolate, but who cares about that heh? Only covid matters

Work*

Very strange comment to say anyone who wants lockdown to end is racist, I have many black and Asian friends who have the same views as me 🤷‍♀️

Meanwhile other countries, that suppress and contain, really will get back to normal. Unlike the UK.

"Suppress and contain" isn't really getting back to normal though is it?!

I don't see how nearly 50% of Delta deaths being in double jabbed translates as holding up well. It bodes badly in fact.

Not at all... Those who have been double jabbed would have been from the groups who made up 99%+ of the deaths before the vaccine roll out.

Thinking that means the vaccine is just 50% effective against protecting against death is a complete misunderstanding of how percentages work in this context.

Imagine 100 deaths, 50 in the younger unvaccinated low risk group, and 50 in the high risk double-vaccinated group.

Before vaccination for every 50 deaths in the younger low risk group, they'd be 4,950 deaths in the older, high risk group (based on this group accounting for 99% of deaths).

That's 50 deaths post vaccine versus 4,950 per vaccine, an astronomical improvement!

I accept that calculation is crude and doesn't appreciate that many of the deaths will be in older people who've chosen (or can't) be vaccinated. This would reduce the difference somewhat, but given that 95% or so of older and vulnerable groups have been vaccinated (even higher in the most vulnerable groups), the efficacy of the vaccine to protect against death is outstanding.

....4,950 deaths pre vaccine not per vaccine

I am interested to know from those who say we must keep the restrictions, have you lost all your income due to lockdowns. Have you family members with cancer who haven’t had the scans they should have done so might have turned terminal because of Covid

@Bythemillpond

I am interested to know from those who say we must keep the restrictions, have you lost all your income due to lockdowns. Have you family members with cancer who haven’t had the scans they should have done so might have turned terminal because of Covid

There's likely more than a few who have lost their income (possibly permanently) due to debilitating Long Covid.

And yes, for those with cancer. The need to suppress and contain Covid is so important. Too many delayed diagnoses....due to hospitals being full and staff off sick (Covid, Long Covid, or burn out).

@Tealightsandd so if the restrictions are lifted on the 19th, will you still stay in lockdown?

There's likely more than a few who have lost their income (possibly permanently) due to debilitating Long Covid.

I've not seen any studies, but I'd be astonished if vaccines didn't significantly reduce the incidents of long-Covid as they have done for hospitalisations and deaths.

[quote Baileysforchristmas]@Tealightsandd so if the restrictions are lifted on the 19th, will you still stay in lockdown?[/quote]
As I'm in the UK Baileys, I'm not in lockdown.

What I'm struggling to understand is that some 2m people have apparently got long covid. According to the BBC, around 4.75m people have actually been diagnosed with it via a positive test. Now take away the 1 in 3 who are completely asymptomatic, around 1 in 3 I am constantly told, and that's 1.6m people it can't have affected, that leaves around 3.15m who had it with symptoms. So that means that around 65% of people who've had it end up with long covid?
Am Missing something here?