Time to "let it rip"?

[Warhertisuff]

Firstly, let me say that I've been in broadly in favour of restrictions put in place since March 2020, but surely, once we get to 19 July, and we have widespread vaccination coverage (not to mention non-vaccine immunity), we should just go back to normal, completely, and treat Covid like the flu, as effectively that's what we've tamed to be akin to.

No more masks, no more isolation, no more testing and tracing....

Yes, they'll be a spike in cases, and many will get ill, but as long as hospitals aren't overwhelmed and people aren't dying in droves, so be it.

I appreciate that there are those who remain vulnerable even after being double-jabbed, but I'd have thought it would be far better for them to shield themselves for a short period as it rips through and burns out like past epidemics, rather than keeping it simmering and retaining a moderate level of risk over a much longer period as we neither do enough to suppress it completely, nor allow things to open up fully enough for it to rip through in a few weeks.

Then as and when variants do arrive (which they probably will) we'll have an even more comprehensive base level of population immunity.

Covid restrictions in England “must come to an end” on 19 July, the new health secretary, Sajid Javid, has announced, saying the public and ministers will have to “learn to live” with the virus. ... He spoke as a further 22,868 coronavirus cases were reported across the UK – the highest in one day since 28 January.

What could possibly go wrong?

@bollihigh

Some very frail or very ill double jabbed folk are sadly going to die covid or no covid as with any other infectious disease or morbidity. The truth is we are going to have to live with covid we simply cannot lock down till infinity is the risk is mainly mitigated which is what the figures are thankfully revealing on a daily basis.

This is such a narrow-sighted, cruel view that shows a lack of critical thinking and a brain that's been fed with Internet memes.

Out of interest will there be? Long Covid that is or does being double vaccinated reduce likelihood

I thought there might be a steer on this as we’ve had vaccine for a while to get some data. Ie are we seeing reduction in Long Covid symptoms in double vaccinated

Long Covid is not at all a surprise. Many serious viral infections cause chronic post-viral syndrome. It's basically what used to be labelled as CFS/ME, although obviously the specific effects vary depending on the virus that triggered it. Largely triggered by inflammation and immune response hence more prevalent in women: the profile is the same. Similar effects were seen in populations affected by SARS, MERS, Ebola, and also flu etc.

Funny how everyone is now so bothered about it when in the past people with CFS/ME in the UK were dismissed with no research funding or treatment and, in many cases, told it was a psychological problem and didn't exist.

Out of interest will there be? Long Covid that is or does being double vaccinated reduce likelihood

I thought there might be a steer on this as we’ve had vaccine for a while to get some data. Ie are we seeing reduction in Long Covid symptoms in double vaccinated

Long Covid is not at all a surprise. Many serious viral infections cause chronic post-viral syndrome. It's basically what used to be labelled as CFS/ME, although obviously the specific effects vary depending on the virus that triggered it. Largely triggered by inflammation and immune response hence more prevalent in women: the profile is the same. Similar effects were seen in populations affected by SARS, MERS, Ebola, and also flu etc.

Funny how everyone is now so bothered about it when in the past people with CFS/ME in the UK were dismissed with no research funding or treatment and, in many cases, told it was a psychological problem and didn't exist.

@MarshaBradyo Out of interest will there be? Long Covid that is or does being double vaccinated reduce likelihood

I thought there might be a steer on this as we’ve had vaccine for a while to get some data. Ie are we seeing reduction in Long Covid symptoms in double vaccinated

Long Covid is not at all a surprise. Many serious viral infections cause chronic post-viral syndrome. It's basically what used to be labelled as CFS/ME, although obviously the specific effects vary depending on the virus that triggered it. Largely triggered by inflammation and immune response hence more prevalent in women: the profile is the same. Similar effects were seen in populations affected by SARS, MERS, Ebola, and also flu etc.

Funny how everyone is now so bothered about it when in the past people with CFS/ME in the UK were dismissed with no research funding or treatment and, in many cases, told it was a psychological problem and didn't exist.

@Permanentlytiredout

Anyone moaning about the “but long covid crowd” clearly does not have long covid. I am beyond unwell with it and have been for over a year. It has been crippling and isn’t getting better. If you haven’t lived with it then you have no idea what it is like and what it means for large amounts of people to have it. There’s 2 million already. I worry that I am going to die every single day because of the symptoms. I am as sick of the restrictions as everybody else, but I’m also terrified of catching it again because my body is now too unwell to fight it off again and it is the same for many people.

I am so sorry to hear about your situation and hope you do recover however, I do have long Covid and have also been unwell as a result for over a year. I still do not believe that the answer is that we lumber on in semi-lockdown forever. It's not feasible. Eventually restrictions must lift. As I said previous viruses causing these syndromes - particularly in the UK flu and glandular fever, were previously accepted. The Government allowed Covid to become endemic in the UK so people continuing to catch this virus is now unavaoidable for all practical purposes, and a proportion of people who do will have long-term illness as a result. It's awful but at this point, I see no way of avoiding that.

It's interesting how many people who are now so militant about "long Covid" gave not a damn previously about sufferers of CFS/ME when pre-Covid there were many more of them than say sufferers of MS yet the research into causes/ treatment was less than 10% of that spent on MS.

Well, the Black Plague did...but not before it killed 60% of the European population. Granted, the current variants of COVID-19 are not nearly so lethal, but I have to wonder about future mutations. Let's face it, the only mutations that survive and spread are those that are successful. The newer variations are far more easily spread.

Well the plague was a bacterial infection not a virus to not comparable.

In terms of viruses, yes the more cases the more mutations happen. Some are irrelevant and some give that strain of virus an advantage therefore those strains spread more. Yes, the successful mutations tend to be more transmissible. But they also tend to be less virulent: it's very counterproductive to kill your host if you are a virus as this reduces your opportunity to replicate in that host or spread to other hosts. There is usually an inverse relationship between transmissibility and virulence, which progresses in this way as a virus mutates as that is what is in the virus's evolutionary interests. Hence most common coronaviruses now fall into the category we consider to be a "common cold"; very infectious but unlikely to cause permanent harm. So from an evolutionary perspective, there is an optimistic outlook on this.

@Tealightsandd the rest of us are not in lockdown but you sound like you still are, I wondered if you leave your house on a daily basis or is it only on mumsnet you tell people they are thick and racist for getting on with their lives?

No idea what you're blathering on about Baileys

I've not told anyone on Mumsnet that they're thick or racist. I posted about the racist far right imagery on the 'freedom' shuffle marches.

Why wouldn't I be leaving my house

I need my coffee. It's too early for bizarre postings.

Btw. This news makes me wonder even more about the vaccine breakdown for those double vaccinated people who have sadly died from the Delta strain.

www.lbc.co.uk/news/two-oxford-vaccine-doses-less-effective-against-delta-variant-than-other-strains/

I'd say it might be a good idea to booster jab those people who've had AZ.

@Tealightsandd

I'd say it might be a good idea to booster jab those people who've had AZ.

Booster with mRNA, Pfizer or Moderna.

Funny how everyone is now so bothered about it when in the past people with CFS/ME in the UK were dismissed with no research funding or treatment and, in many cases, told it was a psychological problem and didn't exist.

Yes this is what I find staggering.

Psychosomatic to a reason for locking down all of society, with absolutely nothing in between. It’s mind blowing.

@TheKeatingFive

Funny how everyone is now so bothered about it when in the past people with CFS/ME in the UK were dismissed with no research funding or treatment and, in many cases, told it was a psychological problem and didn't exist.

Yes this is what I find staggering.

Psychosomatic to a reason for locking down all of society, with absolutely nothing in between. It’s mind blowing.

Are you suggesting long Covid is psychosomatic?

Are you suggesting long Covid is psychosomatic?

No

🤦‍♀️

If AZ isn’t as effective against Delta we could be in trouble as many Group 4s and Group 6s etc have had AZ whilst the younger groups got the better vaccine. Where I live in London it was down to what supply was on the day but most of my extremely clinically vulnerable friends were given AZ,

Yep my ecv dh had AZ as did I.

@TheKeatingFive

Are you suggesting long Covid is psychosomatic?

No

🤦‍♀️

To be fair, your original comment was fairly unclear.

@Sunnyfreezesushi

If AZ isn’t as effective against Delta we could be in trouble as many Group 4s and Group 6s etc have had AZ whilst the younger groups got the better vaccine. Where I live in London it was down to what supply was on the day but most of my extremely clinically vulnerable friends were given AZ,

Both AZ and Pfizer are very effective as vaccines, though Pfizer appears to be the clear "gold standard".

Recent studies had 100% effectiveness of preventing death after two doses (they won't actually be quite 100%, as we know people have died after vaccines, but none were recorded in the studies). For hospitalisations the figures were reductions of 92% for AZ and 96% for Pfizer.

What that appears to mean is that for every 1,000 hospitalisations pre-vaccines, an AZ vaccinated population would generate 80 and a Pfizer would generate 40. So whereas both give massive reductions, hospitalisations are likely to double what they would be in somewhere like Israel where Pfizer has almost exclusively been used given that the bulk of the vulnerable population had AZ.

@LostRobot I’m not sure if I’ve successfully quoted your post or not so tagging you here.

I agree that we can’t lock down indefinitely to stop people from getting long covid but something needs to be in place to help the sufferers of it (something better than the current long covid clinics which are practically useless). I don’t know what, but I am not a medical professional. But God knows what is going to happen when so many more people are going to be this I’ll long term.

And yes, I agree re: ME/CFS/lupus etc. I have had ME my entire adult life and had to advocate for myself and research ways of treating it myself because nobody would help me. I managed it fairly well between flares but the combination of this and LC has crippled me. It partly annoys me that people didn’t care about ME before long covid was a thing... but to be honest, nobody seems to give a shit about long covid unless they have it either so it’s not really any different now.

@RestingCatsBumFace

The 3 Spanish flu waves and the London 1666 Great Plague are examples. They came, struck havoc, and went again within a couple of months

Yes, the Great Plague burnt out due to the Great Fire of London in 1666. That's what we need, clearly, a worldwide fire.

No. It didn't.

•Yes, the Great Plague burnt out due to the Great Fire of London in 1666. That's what we need, clearly, a worldwide fire

Exactly what I came on to say. I've kind of got used to a widespread poor grasp of science over the last 18 months. But there's clearly a poor grasp of history too.

Oh the irony. When this doesn't fit the historical facts at all. Did you read history and actually think about it or are you just regurgutating nonsense that you were told to repeat for your GCSE/ O level?

This did not happen. It's much more nuanced. The areas affected by the fire excluded many most affected by the plague and it continued some time afterwards.

And came back again.

And isn't a virus anyway,