Time to "let it rip"?

[Warhertisuff]

Firstly, let me say that I've been in broadly in favour of restrictions put in place since March 2020, but surely, once we get to 19 July, and we have widespread vaccination coverage (not to mention non-vaccine immunity), we should just go back to normal, completely, and treat Covid like the flu, as effectively that's what we've tamed to be akin to.

No more masks, no more isolation, no more testing and tracing....

Yes, they'll be a spike in cases, and many will get ill, but as long as hospitals aren't overwhelmed and people aren't dying in droves, so be it.

I appreciate that there are those who remain vulnerable even after being double-jabbed, but I'd have thought it would be far better for them to shield themselves for a short period as it rips through and burns out like past epidemics, rather than keeping it simmering and retaining a moderate level of risk over a much longer period as we neither do enough to suppress it completely, nor allow things to open up fully enough for it to rip through in a few weeks.

Then as and when variants do arrive (which they probably will) we'll have an even more comprehensive base level of population immunity.

@Delatron

It’s in the latest ONS release it’s 87% in England and 89% in Wales. Think the media were rounding it up to ‘nearly 9/10’. But still it’s an official figure and you’ll find it very difficult to argue that 87% of adults having Covid antibodies won’t have an impact on spread...

89% of the U.K. population would be herd immunity.

89% of adults isn't.

It doesn’t go from zero to herd immunity.

87% of the adult population having antibodies is fantastic and will have a great impact on spread. This number will continue to increase each week.

I'm sorry you're stupid but the black death lasted for years, was only controlled by strict quarantines and killed half of Europe, so today that would be around 375 million people.

It also completely changed the politics and social structure of a continent.

Fingers crossed, eh?

@DontDoThatGeorge

I'm sorry you're stupid but the black death lasted for years, was only controlled by strict quarantines and killed half of Europe, so today that would be around 375 million people.

It also completely changed the politics and social structure of a continent.

Fingers crossed, eh?

The Black Death occurred when most people stayed within a few miles of their homes for most of their lives. It wasn't the interconnected world we have today. What took a month to transfer between countries now would have taken a year or two back then.

89% of the U.K. population would be herd immunity. 89% of adults isn't.

Indeed, but obviously we don't have herd immunity just yet! Allow it to spread some more when we open up fully, and we just might. Continue to throttle it too hard, and we'll never get there.

@Warhertisuff

89% of the U.K. population would be herd immunity. 89% of adults isn't.

Indeed, but obviously we don't have herd immunity just yet! Allow it to spread some more when we open up fully, and we just might. Continue to throttle it too hard, and we'll never get there.

Yeah, we tried that.

And we've been in deep shit because of it ever since.

Not to mention that 152,000 of us didn't "learn to live with it".

The Black Death occurred when most people stayed within a few miles of their homes for most of their lives. It wasn't the interconnected world we have today. What took a month to transfer between countries now would have taken a year or two back then

Honestly, I'm not sure where you're getting your information from, but you really do need to try harder. Are you saying this, if it wasn't disingenuous nonsense, makes things better or worse, in comparison with today?

@Warhertisuff

89% of the U.K. population would be herd immunity. 89% of adults isn't.

Indeed, but obviously we don't have herd immunity just yet! Allow it to spread some more when we open up fully, and we just might. Continue to throttle it too hard, and we'll never get there.

What rubbish are you spouting? International trade was alive and well in the twelfth century.

@Tealightsandd

appreciate that there are those who remain vulnerable even after being double-jabbed, but I'd have thought it would be far better for them to shield themselves for a short

How do potentially millions of people, many of working age, including key worker roles, do that? We don't yet know who (out of the millions of vulnerable) are less protected, which conditions.

Meanwhile, the vulnerable are not all vaccinated. 53,000 children spent much of the last year shielding. Those under 16 are still in limbo, still waiting for a vaccine.

It’s really not all about the ‘vulnerable’ now, we’ve sacrificed our lives for the past 15+ months. About time for someone else to sacrifice.

Who's that someone else tappity? The CEV children?

@PastMyBestBeforeDate you should read Tappitys response on the Mask thread, I’m guessing theyre either drunk high or deranged 😂

Neither. Highly educated, scientific background. In my ‘real life’ most people have a very similar viewpoint to me. On mumsnet, not so much.

@Delatron

It’s in the latest ONS release it’s 87% in England and 89% in Wales. Think the media were rounding it up to ‘nearly 9/10’. But still it’s an official figure and you’ll find it very difficult to argue that 87% of adults having Covid antibodies won’t have an impact on spread...

This is first jabs in adults. Not population herd immunity.

So who exactly tappity?

[quote Thewiseoneincognito]@PastMyBestBeforeDate you should read Tappitys response on the Mask thread, I’m guessing theyre either drunk high or deranged 😂[/quote]
Are you a teenager? Not everyone who disagrees with your viewpoint is ‘deranged’….

I'm largely anti restrictions but I disagree with you OP. The current levels of restrictions are very manageable - we can do pretty much everything we want. See family and friends, go on trips to places and UK breaks, go out for a meal or shopping.

Obviously masks are still around but they're not really that bad. And we can't travel internationally, but if we decided to "let it rip" we would be in every country's red list anyway. What is it that you would lift now?

About time for someone else to sacrifice

What? Who do you not mind dying so you can... Stand closer to strangers in shops?

What's your actual problem?

@Maybeetomorrow

I’m pretty sure I didn’t say we had herd immunity. I said the fact that such a large percentage of the adult population has antibodies for Covid will have some impact on its ability to spread versus last year when nobody had any immunity.

How can we go back to square one when so many adults have been vaccinated?

Social distancing is not about the right to stand close to someone in a shop FFS.
It’s the difference between entire industries being able to open up or not. It’s about livelihoods and families being forced into poverty.
Dogg my try and pretend it doesn’t matter.

@Tealightsandd

How do potentially millions of people, many of working age, including key worker roles, do that? We don't yet know who (out of the millions of vulnerable) are less protected, which conditions.

Anyone would think reading these some of these responses that there has been no mass vaccination roll out and that vaccines are ineffective and barely make a difference!

We have a good understanding of who doesn't produce a strong antibody response following vaccination, it's generally those who are immune-suppressed, who sadly are vulnerable to a whole host of infections that most of the population would readily recover from. This is a small group, not the millions who were particularly vulnerable pre-vaccine.

Does that mean I'm suggesting we throw those immuno-suppressed people "under a bus"? No... All I'm saying is that once we lift restrictions, we might as well allow Covid to burn through quickly rather than attempt to drag out the process by some half-hearted retained mitigation measures that will just prolong the period that those who remain vulnerable are at high risk and feel the need to shut themselves away. If people can mix fully at a weddings from 19 July, then insisting on masks in shops is pretty futile.

We couldn't do just "shield the vulnerable" before as Covid posed a significant threat to millions and would have overwhelmed the NHS had we done nothing. But now the risks to society have substantially reduced, so we should be able to manage it.

The alternative is restrictions for years without end - parties and gatherings literally become a thing of the past - as there will always be those that are immunity-suppressed, and there will, unfortunately, always be Covid.

"I think you’ll find plenty of parents who have CV and CEV children that will find it wholly unacceptable."

Was that Incognito posting?

1)How many CEV and CV children are there? How many 1000's?
2) What is being done them? What is being suggested? Are they going to be vaccinated? If so, why hasn't that been prioritised? If they can't be what else can be done what exactly are you suggesting needs to be done to help this week to support this group?

We can't keep everything on hold. Delatron needs to get back to normal with her fitness classes. Many businesses will go bust once furlough stops in September.

Saying posters don't care about CEV children isn't fair. I care. But what is the solution here?

I think it’s a good point. What is the long term plan for CEV children? As parents of these children what do you want to happen?

Are there any trials being done with vaccinations? Can we look at data in the US where they are vaccinating over 12s? What are other countries doing?

Surely the balance tips with CEV child and the vaccines are the answer?

If I was a parent of CEV child I would be immensely annoyed if the medical profession was telling me on the one hand we had to shield but on the other they wouldn’t be fighting for my child to get a vaccine.

That seemed to be what a poster on here was saying was the situation for them.

I think the jury is out on exactly how at risk these children are and the medical types are covering their backs on both counts. That’s not a fair position to put families in.

Also surely we have more data now on the risks to CEV children at a global level and could use that to inform decision making.