Time to "let it rip"?

[Warhertisuff]

Firstly, let me say that I've been in broadly in favour of restrictions put in place since March 2020, but surely, once we get to 19 July, and we have widespread vaccination coverage (not to mention non-vaccine immunity), we should just go back to normal, completely, and treat Covid like the flu, as effectively that's what we've tamed to be akin to.

No more masks, no more isolation, no more testing and tracing....

Yes, they'll be a spike in cases, and many will get ill, but as long as hospitals aren't overwhelmed and people aren't dying in droves, so be it.

I appreciate that there are those who remain vulnerable even after being double-jabbed, but I'd have thought it would be far better for them to shield themselves for a short period as it rips through and burns out like past epidemics, rather than keeping it simmering and retaining a moderate level of risk over a much longer period as we neither do enough to suppress it completely, nor allow things to open up fully enough for it to rip through in a few weeks.

Then as and when variants do arrive (which they probably will) we'll have an even more comprehensive base level of population immunity.

Attracted! Not affected.

The world isn't vaccinated OP and we'd be basically sacrificing poorer countries people to the virus by allowing it to burn itself out. Just because we're doing OK with vaccines and people are fed up with restrictions doesn't give us a right to fuck over the rest of the world.

But the IFR for Covid is far lower than all those other historic examples of pandemics. Something like 0.02%.

Even lower now we have effective vaccines.

They came, struck havoc, and went again within a couple of months

A couple of months? Bollocks they did.

so why bother continuing to be obsessed with it.

Sweet lord.

I think that's what they are planning any way. Wait till 17th of July when ever it is every thing back to normal then its going to spread more then it is now and they don't want any more lockdowns so we will have to learn to live with it.
They have said the vaccine doesn't work in everybody so people will die and it will be personal responsibility to keep yourself safe.

Sal

@Delatron

I’ve been double vaccinated and I’m not vulnerable.

Apart from unfortunately CEV children who vulnerable are left to vaccinate?

So those becoming ill at the moment are in a low risk of complications group. Plus 89% of the population have antibodies so how much ‘ripping through’ could it do?

Obviously this post has affected the ‘but long Covid’ crowd. There will always be long Covid, there will always be Covid.

Out of interest will there be? Long Covid that is or does being double vaccinated reduce likelihood

I thought there might be a steer on this as we’ve had vaccine for a while to get some data. Ie are we seeing reduction in Long Covid symptoms in double vaccinated

@Warhertisuff
It’s true that those waiting for their vaccines now are the very low risk group, but if the virus is in high circulation because of the young ones spreading it , then the high risk group will catch it. No question about that.

The vaccines are not 100% effective, let’s go with 85-90% effectiveness, so this leaves us with 10-15% of the more vulnerable population being at high risk. While this percentage sounds small, when you look at the actual number of people involved within the percentage of this age bracket, you are talking about hundreds of thousands of people who can get potential really ill and overwhelm the hospitals.
Until the virus is in low circulation, that’s when the vaccines can be barrier to infections.

There are an estimated 2 million people with long covid now. I know personally know two healthy young people with it. And it’s debilitating. That’s another thing to consider.

Yes I’m not sure @MarshaBradyo you would think that there’d be some information about vaccinations and long Covid. I haven’t seen any though.

I guess it will just become rarer. Fewer infections due to immunity and vaccines means less long Covid.

I don’t doubt long Covid is debilitating.
Do we have a medically accepted definition of it? So that we know 2 million are suffering?

Because it was quite vague last time I looked. Symptoms lingering for more than 5 weeks counted as long Covid. I was ill after flu for a good few months. Pneumonia can take 6+ months to get over.

My cousin has long Covid so it is close to home for me. Just wondered if the definition had been updated.

Have you done any research into how vaccines work? Most vaccines won’t work well or even at all in vulnerable people.

Just how many deaths do you views as acceptable?

How do you know the U.K. is in the middle of a 3rd wave?

This wave, whichever it is, seems to be only getting started.

Out of interest will there be? Long Covid that is or does being double vaccinated reduce likelihood

I thought there might be a steer on this as we’ve had vaccine for a while to get some data. Ie are we seeing reduction in Long Covid symptoms in double vaccinated

I'm not sure. Heard of some patients reporting an improvement in their symptoms after vaccines but I don't know if that's just a few. Not sure how representative they are. It would be great if vaccines do help.

Don't know if vaccines will protect against developing Long Covid, as it can develop after even mild initial infection.

However, once we get to the stage of majority population (80-90%) vaccinated, then people will be protected against Long Covid. As then they'll be very unlikely to catch Covid in the first place.

@justwanttodanceagain

it rips through and burns out like past epidemics

How many past epidemics have ripped through and burned out?

All of them?

@Delatron

This article is good.

www.telegraph.co.uk/health-fitness/body/long-covid-bad-struggle-talk-doctors-dismissed-psychosomatic/amp/

Experts think Long Covid might be four different issues, including for some illness similar to post viral syndrome, and for others organ damage.

The question for now is how many are like the young woman in the above article. Dismissed by doctors as anxiety, standard scans giving an all clear - yet specialist scans showing life threatening clots in her lungs.

I hope your cousin is doing ok and has access to a Long Covid clinic if needed (some aren't yet up and running properly).

Thanks @Tealightsandd
I do think more research needs to be done around it and why more women suffer. I did read something about a link with oestrogen...

No more masks, no more isolation, no more testing and tracing.

I have not gone through over a year of isolating, lockdown, not seeing some family members, wearing masks etc to then ‘let rip’ and it all be for nothing.

As long as things are starting to open up which they are then I am happy.
We went from only essential shops being open, schools closed and only allowed out once a day to where we are now and I don’t want to go back to what is was like then.

@Delatron

Thanks *@Tealightsandd* I do think more research needs to be done around it and why more women suffer. I did read something about a link with oestrogen...

Yes I read something about oestrogen too.

Interesting. It would be good to have some more research on this.

Anyone moaning about the “but long covid crowd” clearly does not have long covid. I am beyond unwell with it and have been for over a year. It has been crippling and isn’t getting better. If you haven’t lived with it then you have no idea what it is like and what it means for large amounts of people to have it. There’s 2 million already. I worry that I am going to die every single day because of the symptoms. I am as sick of the restrictions as everybody else, but I’m also terrified of catching it again because my body is now too unwell to fight it off again and it is the same for many people.

I agree op. We have flu vaccines for the vulnerable and there's still flu deaths and we just accept it. We don't isolate ourselves if we have it or suspect we have been exposed to it despite knowing it has the capacity to kill. We need to get on with normal life now.

I agree OP. We all knew we were going to have to live with it at some point, now is the time with most of the vulnerable vaccinated. We here will always be people vulnerable to covid who are unprotected, just as there is for many other viruses. It’s unfortunate but they will have to make the same choices as many people have had to do their whole lives. It’s time for the majority of the population to get on with their lives unrestricted and those who want to shield themselves.

Pretty sure this is what the government is planning anyway, they are very wet on a July 19th happening and didn’t want to delay from June 21st. Hope it all goes ahead as planned.

It'll 'rip' eventually once the public accept it as just another endemic virus like the other 300 odd corona/rhino viruses we all succumb to regularly. It'll just become another cold virus. How long that will take will depend on how long it takes to undo the psychological damage the government have caused to the majority of the public.
The virus isn't going anywhere and people won't accept restrictions forever.

Pretty sure this is what the government is planning anyway

Yes. Hence why we are now the high risk country that others want to (understandably) restrict entry from. Just because our government might be content to let it freely spread (and risk more dangerous mutations developing as a consequence) doesn't mean other places will be the same.

@toocold54

No more masks, no more isolation, no more testing and tracing.

I have not gone through over a year of isolating, lockdown, not seeing some family members, wearing masks etc to then ‘let rip’ and it all be for nothing.

As long as things are starting to open up which they are then I am happy.
We went from only essential shops being open, schools closed and only allowed out once a day to where we are now and I don’t want to go back to what is was like then.

I'm not sure what you're expecting once we "unlock" and restrictions are removed on 19 July (assuming that happens) but the majority will interact normally socially (many are now!)and Covid cases will inevitably rise.

If we open up there's little point in retaining things like masks indoor public places, sanitising in every shop or lateral flow tests twice each week. It's better for cases to rise fast (now the vulnerable are vaccinated) and fall, rather than keeping some residual measures that won't be particularly effective and prolonging the "third wave". Either way, those that are highly vulnerable and for whom vaccines are less effective may feel the need to shield away as the impact of unlocking works itself through. However, this will happen more quickly if we remove the comfort blankets that many have come attached to, and the CEV will be able to get back to full normality sooner!