Just wondering if those that have refused to have the vaccine are now wishing they had?

[Lovemusic33]

There’s a lot of talk about vaccinated people not having to quarantine in the future making travel easier, the possibility of a vaccine passport to be able to go to events and travel.

I have several friends that have refused to have the vaccine due to conspiracy theories and ‘not knowing the risks’, if they had taken the first vaccine they would have had their 2nd by now and potentially be ok to travel in the coming weeks or attend events, there even talk of some jobs needing vaccination (care workers).

I’m just wondering if anyone regrets their choice not to vaccinate?

BTW, I am vaccinated but I’m not judging those who decided against it, just wondering if they have changed their minds?

It was the Oxford I had

The only reason this would be any different is if they actually did away with it, and they're not going to do that unless it's not needed

But once a certain number, a percent, is fully vaccinted the it won't be need will it?

i.e because they have an effective treatment or it has mutated enough to be a total non-issue. In which case why would anyone want it!

What might be needed is a new modified vaccine but that would be a new programme and we would start all over again

Flu jabs are modified every year. You don't have the exact same flu vaccine every year.

@Xenia

I can take the heat - no posts needs to be deleted however nasty they are against those of us choosing not to have the vaccine.

This is a first world advance and privileged nation. We have world beating scientists who are evidently trying their upmost to save the planet in this pandemic battle.

No one is forced to inject anything you don’t want as there are billions globally waiting without this luxury of scientific protection.

No one I know is against anti vaxx - not me as we are all mums who incidentally all happen to be professionals respected in our fields having been educated to postgraduate level at world class universities and now also involved and invested in our schools as heads of PTA and Governors. We are simply pro science and thankful that brilliant minds are putting all that talent and knowledge into a concerted effort under untold pressure to save our souls!

You may be the exceptional few as most can’t wait to get vaccinated before they are challenged by Covid and potential health and wealth wellbeing issues. The vaccines have more health benefits than potential harm given the pandemic and mutating more contagious and dangerous variants like Indian Delta Plus as just recently sequenced.

It’s your life your choice but please “anti vaxx brigade cult” do not spread falsehoods which are not peer reviewed by recognised international talent in their specialist fields and have majority positive consensus.

Stay safe and stay away from dangerous misinformation and the contagious!

@Flaxmeadow

Herd immunity only works if most people in the population are vaccinated (for example, 19 out of every 20 people need to be vaccinated against measles to protect people who are not vaccinated). If people are not vaccinated, herd immunity is not guaranteed to protect them.

If the vaccine is not going to be given past august in a few years when others become the age (at the moment 18) in which they can have the vaccine we are going to have a huge problem as no one would have had the vaccine past August 2021

I’m really not sure how you think this works. confused What do you think is going to happen to all the vaccine doses come august, particularly when they’re going to start boosting people

Its supply and demand. If most people are double jabbed at the some point in a certain area/country, then obviously less vaccine is ordered, because it isn't needed. The rate it is being ordered or manufactured for an area/country is gradually reduced as the fully jabbed number rises. Those that have refused it are irrelevant because they cannot be forced to have it.

...in other words, the vaccine refusniks will he written off at some point

@Flaxmeadow

I’m really not sure how you think this works. confused What do you think is going to happen to all the vaccine doses come august, particularly when they’re going to start boosting people

Its supply and demand. If most people are double jabbed at the some point in a certain area/country, then obviously less vaccine is ordered, because it isn't needed. The rate it is being ordered or manufactured for an area/country is gradually reduced as the fully jabbed number rises. Those that have refused it are irrelevant because they cannot be forced to have it.

I just sent you a link showing that they’ve ordered even more doses for the booster campaign in autumn. So, again, why do you think vaccines will not be available from August?

@ResIpsaLoquiturInterAlia
I fall into that same category, am pro-science and not anti-vaxx. I have, however, decided not to have this vaccine.

@ResIpsaLoquiturInterAlia I’m thrilled the Highly educated mums of your PTA aren’t against those of us waiting to see the long term effects of the vaccines. For the record I don’t believe you’re all 5G robots swarming with nano tech not that you’re magnetic however your social circle does seem a little bit ‘Stepford wife’ 😕 maybe it’s just me though and the tone in your post 😉

Anyway thank you for your insight and blessings.

@Flaxmeadow

...in other words, the vaccine refusniks will he written off at some point

Really? 🤨

res you might be surprised. I’m one of those mums. I have told people I have had it. Those who have asked anyway. Many of us have.

I’m glad you have such faith in the system. I think you are naive

I just sent you a link showing that they’ve ordered even more doses for the booster campaign in autumn. So, again, why do you think vaccines will not be available from August

But they cannot keep ordering/manufacturing vaccines for those who refuse. It doesn't make any sense to, financially, storage wise or any other way

If people refuse, they refuse and eventually they will be written off. It's simple supply and demand numbers. Vaccines have a shelf life and so why have them just incase someone changes their mind?

Do you think everyone has a dose with their name on it or something and they send it away after a certain amount of time? I’m not really sure how else to explain to you that vaccine doses will still be available in the U.K. after august (and well beyond!) what you heard from your neighbour about what their gp told them I’d incorrect. Either they misinterpreted it (or you did) or the gp was trying to make your neighbour feel like they were under pressure to have it by a certain date.

@Flaxmeadow

I just sent you a link showing that they’ve ordered even more doses for the booster campaign in autumn. So, again, why do you think vaccines will not be available from August

But they cannot keep ordering/manufacturing vaccines for those who refuse. It doesn't make any sense to, financially, storage wise or any other way

If people refuse, they refuse and eventually they will be written off. It's simple supply and demand numbers. Vaccines have a shelf life and so why have them just incase someone changes their mind?

The can and they will keep ordering manufacturing and storing them. They will also tweak them to make them safer with fewer side effects and more resilient against variants.

It’s incredibly naive to think otherwise.

@Flaxmeadow

I just sent you a link showing that they’ve ordered even more doses for the booster campaign in autumn. So, again, why do you think vaccines will not be available from August

But they cannot keep ordering/manufacturing vaccines for those who refuse. It doesn't make any sense to, financially, storage wise or any other way

If people refuse, they refuse and eventually they will be written off. It's simple supply and demand numbers. Vaccines have a shelf life and so why have them just incase someone changes their mind?

@Flaxmeadow

I think you or your neighbour has misinterpreted this

The vaccination programme won't end in august, there's lots of people who aren't currently eligible who will be, and others who are waiting on consultant approval (e.g., if you have specific disorder that might be a contraindication), what's the best option

it's not simply people who refused at the first instance

I'm still waiting on a consultants approval.
Technically I'm also a refuser as the nhs systems automatically send out those invites and I didn't make an appointment. So my named vaccine would have already been destroyed. Or it would have gone past it's shelf live now and destroyed

But now I'm to be written off because August that's it. I had my chance?
Although think I have missed the deadline anyway for the August cutoff to make anymore vaccinations for the 2nd dose.

You would think that vital information like this and the removal of the vaccine from evergreen would have had the nhs green(?) book updated to reflect this to give all those consultants the heads up. Never mind all the gp's who are the first point of call for various MH services who would have targeted certain patients. And of course MH services themselves who would have been frantically working with some of their patients.
You would think that at hospital level and patients on wards would also be nudged into having it because come August that's it.. Fuck you you had your chance.

You also realise that production will continue at this level because there are massive swathes of the globe that haven't had their first jab yet regardless of their vulnerability? Until the masses of the world have been vaccinated if they want it, mass production will continue. It won't slow down and stop in August because demand will still be there on a mass scale.

The UK will continue to produce, offer and provide the vaccination after August because every day hundreds if not thousands someone turns 18 in the UK alone. And just like us now over 18 there will be those who say I don't want it. The whys are down to them and their freedom to make that choice based on free access to factual information.

The narrative is constantly shifted because nothing is known. Initially vaccination was not about herd immunity or vaccinating the young and healthy.

The question has changed - am I against all new treatments even if they are classed as vaccinations (if there are no other treatments) and so object to the vulnerable being given potentially life saving treatment during a global pandemic - no. Do I want the same new treatment/ vaccination if not vulnerable - no. Do I want my teens to have it - hell, no.

It wasn't what is normally understood by vaccination but would be more like the flu jab where herd immunity is not possible but the most vulnerable would be vaccinated against past dominant strains to reduce morbidity and mortality so as to not overwhelm the health service.

But now given the immense failures of the UK government the focus has shifted to vaccination. The number of vaccinations rather than how useful they are has become the key measure of the efficacy of the government. They were developed for the original virus but may be effective against variants but you need a booster. May reduce transmission. Developed to reduce severity of disease but may help those at no risk of developing severe disease.

Well we can wait and see. We really can't do otherwise. This is the first test of vaccination against dominant new variant. It's worrying that the government was not willing to pitch vaccination of the vulnerable against a new variant.

In health terms it does not make sense but in political terms it absolutely does. Vaccinating the young and healthy will not lead to herd immunity and to paraphrase Ferguson will almost certainly probably make things worse.

If people refuse, they refuse and eventually they will be written off. It's simple supply and demand numbers. Vaccines have a shelf life and so why have them just incase someone changes their mind?

I agree with this. I don't think it will happen in August but I think it could happen next year at some point (definitely before 2023).

I think you will always be able to get a vaccine but after a certain time you may have to pay and since production (particularly for Pfizer) involves producing a bulk amount at a time goodness knows how much that will cost unless it starts producing single shots.

My DD didn't want the HPV vaccine so we said we'd arrange for it outside school. The GP said they don't do vaccines that are part of the school vaccination regime and the local pharmacy said it would cost about £350 for the course. Thankfully due to Covid, second jabs were delayed and she realised she was being a bit silly so had it at school. I think eventually it may be the same for Covid - if you want it outside the national vaccination programme you may have to pay. If it's approved for children I think it will happen at school and I think there will be provision for those of 17/turning 18.

I certainly don't think it's practical for GPs to hold supplies just in case. They'd have to have a list of people lined up to use the whole phial/frozen batch in the case of Pfizer.

Well this thread took a strange turn, didn't it!

Yes vaccines do have a short shelf life, but that just means continuous production is needed. Even if these vaccines have to be adjusted due to mutations, the basic 'formula' and ingredients are the same, and production will carry on. It won't just stop at the end of August. It will only stop when Covid is no longer considered a threat and has been largely eliminated. The latter may never happen.

I must admit I find it odd that people who don't want the vaccine actually care about whether or not it will always be available to them!

I think production will go on indefinitely, it's just a question of whether or not it will be available on the NHS for free indefinitely.

I couldn't care really about production once everyone who wants it globally has been vaccinated.

And lets be honest it's a no brainer that eventually it will start to slow down. We aren't there on a global level.

I just care about people not trying to spread shite and essentially put fear into people by claiming after August that's it. No more. You had your chance. As I said further up if this is really what the gp said then complaints need to be made about coercion. However, the August thing could also be to do with time limits on getting that second shot and something has been misunderstood along the way.

In a way it would have been easier if they were made with our names printed on them and the choice given to donate to someone else if refused/couldn't have it. A weird pay it back kind of thing. Yea I admit I have some crazy ideas sometimes lol,.

@Sweetpeasaremadeforbees

I must admit I find it odd that people who don't want the vaccine actually care about whether or not it will always be available to them!

I think production will go on indefinitely, it's just a question of whether or not it will be available on the NHS for free indefinitely.

Did you read the thread?

Some of us DO want it but not without knowing more about the level of risk and the true efficacy of them. I want a vaccine that is proven effective with no risk to my health, right now no one knows the long term impact of taking AZ or Pfizer. Once we do then sign me up if they’re as safe as they claim.

Until then I’m happy to wait, I’m not refusing it I’m simply saying I’ll hold on for now. If I have to pay for it because I chose to wait then so be it maybe by that point they won’t be as experimental and you may have a choice which brand to have fingers crossed.

Gotta love a poster with 'wise' in their name who is apparently happy to take their chances with COVID-19.

In the long run, we are all dead, btw.

And tbh I'm gutted the August cut off is bollocks because it essentially gave me a get out card.

As pp I don't want it because I want to know about risks. When it was first released it was marketed as safe and just a couple of minor side effects. Couple of months in we found out this isn't the case. The side effects alone can be alarming and time off needed that people cannot afford. Never mind the clotting issues that were heavily downplayed when news was coming out elsewhere. Remember the allergic reactions that weren't picked up during the clinical trials? I could go on.

All these make me pause and think do I want to chance it? No I don't. I know what my chances of the virus are as I have had it. Which then takes me to think about immunity and others illnesses over the years that immunity has protected me against getting it again or as bad as that first hit. But now natural immunity is mentioned to be often met by derision. Why? Either its a thing or it's not.

I do kind of have a get out card because of my consultants. For some this isn't enough and want to know the intricate details of your health some they can compare with someone else and say bullshit. Just like the whole bloody mask thing.

At least if the program was to cease in August I could say unfortunately I wasn't well enough to have the vaccine. And when I got well it was no longer available. Although I'm sure someone would argue the toss with me but hey ho.

It just said on the CV briefing that it is never too late to get your vaccine

But now given the immense failures of the UK government the focus has shifted to vaccination. The number of vaccinations rather than how useful they are has become the key measure of the efficacy of the government.

This is very pertinent.