Why are all the Covid conspiracy theory’s coming true?

[sunnnysideup]

Honest question?

Originally published 14th May, dimwit

Nope, the screenshot and link you've provided is clearly from September 2021 @IncredulousOne

Can I suggest turning down the insults a bit?

It doesn't help your case to call people stupid or dimwits.

So far we have

• surprisingly effective vaccines that have saved over 100k lives

• but people who have been vaccinated can still transmit disease

• the general medical expectation was never that a vaccine was likely to eliminate transmission completely

• most medics are really impressed that vaccines were produced so fast and work so well

• no I don't work for Big Pharma

@ollyollyoxenfree

You've also linked info from this month, so not really relevant to your claims that prior to efficacy waning, experts were claiming vaccines stop infection and transmission?

Even though my original statement said nothing about timeline - it simply indicated that people who said "no one ever claimed that vaccination prevented infection", you can clearly see that the claims about infections prevented are spread throughout the timeline e.g. 1st July update states that vaccines have "so far prevented an estimated 7.2 million infections".

I don't see why I need to prove to you again and again that people have repeatedly claimed over an extended period of time that vaccines prevent transmission.

Those who (in the face of waning efficacy against infection) claim that "no one ever said that vaccines prevented infection" are clearly and demonstrably wrong.

@ollyollyoxenfree

Originally published 14th May, dimwit

Nope, the screenshot and link you've provided is clearly from September 2021 @IncredulousOne

And if you scroll to the time period you're actually referencing, it clearly states (the earliest available in the link you provided is May 2021 so this is the context):

As these figures highlight, getting your vaccine could save your life or stop you becoming seriously ill from COVID-19. It will also significantly reduce your chances of getting infected and infecting others. It is vital to get both doses of your vaccine when you are offered it.

I don't see why I need to prove to you again and again that people have repeatedly claimed over an extended period of time that vaccines prevent transmission.

Those who (in the face of waning efficacy against infection) claim that "no one ever said that vaccines prevented infection" are clearly and demonstrably wrong.

I think you're getting infection and transmission mixed up. They can't be used interchangeably.

Your original point was stating that experts had claimed vaccines prevent transmission. You haven't been able to provide any evidence for this.

INFECTION not transmission

Oh I know. Especially the one about Bill Gates tracking us all with a chip implanted under the skin via the vaccine. I'm sure he is in his lair right now, intently watching me, a nurse living in some wee town in Scotland, munching on my breakfast roll and latte in Costa. He'll be documenting my whereabouts for the rest of the day, a wander into H&M, popping into boots...

The stuff that you've mentioned above aren't "conspiracy theories". The are reasonable speculations at measures which may have been put in place to allow the govt to manage the situation.

I think this is to do with having some experience and knowledge about how medicines can be helpful even if they don't have 100% the desired effect for everyone?

So for example, I was vaccinated for flu but still got pretty ill with it in 2017.

It turned out that year that the flu vaccine being given was less than 50% effective.

People were getting ill and also transmitting flu despite being vaccinated.

The flu vaccine still helped reduce cases a bit, which still saves lives and helps the NHS, and that's is why we still have a big drive on flu vaccines. But not completely.

I think there have been great pains taken to explain the issues around covid vaccines and Whitty and JVT have been very careful to be as accurate as possible when discussing science in press conferences.

I can also appreciate that it can be confusing if you don't have a science background.

@ollyollyoxenfree

I don't see why I need to prove to you again and again that people have repeatedly claimed over an extended period of time that vaccines prevent transmission.

Those who (in the face of waning efficacy against infection) claim that "no one ever said that vaccines prevented infection" are clearly and demonstrably wrong.

I think you're getting infection and transmission mixed up. They can't be used interchangeably.

Your original point was stating that experts had claimed vaccines prevent transmission. You haven't been able to provide any evidence for this.

Yes, I meant infection in my original paragraph above. If you go back to the original post I made, you will see that I said infection. (I see you've made the same mistake too, so we're even on that one).

However, my original point did NOT state that experts had claimed vaccines prevent infection (although I have since demonstrated several times that experts have made this claim - e.g. Lancet article stating 95.3% efficacy at preventing infection, PHE repeatedly estimating the number of infections that have been prevented by the Covid vaccines, etc).

My assertion was that those who (in the face of waning efficacy against infection) claim that "no one ever said that vaccines prevented infection" are clearly and demonstrably wrong.

I did not say "experts" said that.
I did not say anyone said it was "100% effective in preventing transmission".
I did not give any timescale (i.e. whether those erroneous claims were made 1 week ago or 1 year ago).

My assertion was that it was untrue that "no one ever said that vaccines prevented infection".

Having demonstrated the validity of my assertion several times (with mainstream newspaper articles, peer-reviewed scientific papers, government websites which quote numbers of infections prevented) I don't see why you are still trying to argue? It's just making you look stupid.

well vaccines DO prevent infection (quite a bit) just as they decrease transmission (quite a bit).

do we agree on that?

The effect appears to wane with time, there has been concern about monitoring that from a very early stage, as we can see this with other vaccines too. So after several months, it seems the vaccines help less with the above. There's also an issue with delta being less effective. That's why we have boosters coming in for the most vulnerable.

do we agree on that?

The issues are complex and often misreported in the media.

presumably we can all agree on that

Some conspiracy theory's make sense some i get confused about. Im very open minded and like to listen a lot and come to my own conclusions. The fact our government made such a shit show of dealing with the pandemic at the start helps me believe some of these tin hats.... i have not and will not be having this jab. Its a human trial my 12 year lld will not be having the jab after doing her own research. We came to the conclusion as a team its not for us. Someone im very close too who would be classed as a "tin hat" told me in may come autum we will have food shortages low and behold here we are today with being in the news there could be food shortages. She told me at the start about vax passports coming in. Here they are. Kids getting jabbed. Here it is.

Before im jumped on for not following the narrative please remember we are all human all different and can all have a different opinion and still be normal. If we was all the same with the same thoughts life would be boring

Having demonstrated the validity of my assertion several times (with mainstream newspaper articles, peer-reviewed scientific papers, government websites which quote numbers of infections prevented) I don't see why you are still trying to argue? It's just making you look stupid.

But is isn't - you've completely ignored all my points particularly regarding the peer reviewed articles.

You're somehow complaining there's an issue with a research group reporting the literal efficacy calculated from study and cautious interpretation of these findings from discussion.

I'm not sure why me questioning what you think it wrong with this makes me stupid.

@ollyollyoxenfree

www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(21)00947-8/fulltext

In the findings section it states

"Adjusted estimates of vaccine effectiveness at 7 days or longer after the second dose were 95·3% against SARS-CoV-2 infection"

How do you plan to twist out of this one now?

Those were the findings @IncredulousOne. When you conduct analyses, you report the methods and numbers derived. It's how manuscripts are prepared. You can't get angry at someone reporting what their analyses showed, unless you think the data/methods are dodgy.

As they said

There were marked and sustained declines in SARS-CoV-2 incidence corresponding to increasing vaccine coverage. These findings suggest that COVID-19 vaccination can help to control the pandemic.

Perfectly reasonable and cautious interpretation of their findings at the time.

More detail on this in their discussion

SARS-CoV-2 transmission is likely to continue until the proportion of the population with immunity exceeds a herd immunity threshold,26 which has been estimated to be at least 60%,27 although the emergence of more transmissible SARS-CoV-2 variants could result in higher herd immunity thresholds. Achieving the SARS-CoV-2 herd immunity threshold might not be reached, however, without vaccinating some individuals younger than 16 years. In addition, the duration of immunity to SARS-CoV-2, either from infection or immunisation, is not known, and progress towards herd immunity in Israel could be disrupted by the emergence of new SARS-CoV-2 variants if those variants are less susceptible to the current vaccine-induced immune response and if they were to become broadly disseminated. Further studies are needed to monitor the population level of immunity, identify disruption of viral transmission, and detect and evaluate the effects of emerging SARS-CoV-2 variants.

In full.

The problem is that the situation is more nuanced than do vaccines prevent infections or don't they.

For example, from the US CDC site (15th Sept).

"The risk for SARS-CoV-2 infection in fully vaccinated people cannot be completely eliminated as long as there is continued community transmission of the virus. Early data suggest infections in fully vaccinated persons are more commonly observed with the Delta variant than with other SARS-CoV-2 variants. However, data show fully vaccinated persons are less likely than unvaccinated persons to acquire SARS-CoV-2, and infections with the Delta variant in fully vaccinated persons are associated with less severe clinical outcomes. Infections with the Delta variant in vaccinated persons potentially have reduced transmissibility than infections in unvaccinated persons, although additional studies are needed."

There is of course the important point

"Data ... indicat[es] that COVID-19 vaccination remains highly effective against COVID-19 hospitalization and death caused by the Delta variant of SARS-CoV-2."

So, regards infection and transmission, it isn't a yes or no answer.

The vaccines help reduce but don't eliminate infection.

It is a real challenge trying to present complex information in an accessible format though.

I also don't understand why you need to repeatedly call posters stupid and dimwits

I guess it's mendacious then. Employed by big Pharma?

Absolutely, my brief is to disseminate lies to the world. I’m doing really well and will get a bonus of ten trillion USD.

Not jumping on anyone.

But we were all predicting food shortages! and Brexit had a lot to do with that, and is still quite an issue.

We have a very well stocked larder by this point.

I don't think that is a conspiracy theory coming true either...

Kids getting jabbed is hardly a conspiracy though. It's like a natural progression in a vaccine programme.

And also people needing vaccines to do health work isn't new (see hepatitis B).

Neither is the idea of getting vaccines before you go on holiday (see yellow fever).

I even used to have a vaccine certificate to keep with my passport, years ago.

@Mummapenguin20

Some conspiracy theory's make sense some i get confused about. Im very open minded and like to listen a lot and come to my own conclusions. The fact our government made such a shit show of dealing with the pandemic at the start helps me believe some of these tin hats.... i have not and will not be having this jab. Its a human trial my 12 year lld will not be having the jab after doing her own research. We came to the conclusion as a team its not for us. Someone im very close too who would be classed as a "tin hat" told me in may come autum we will have food shortages low and behold here we are today with being in the news there could be food shortages. She told me at the start about vax passports coming in. Here they are. Kids getting jabbed. Here it is.

Before im jumped on for not following the narrative please remember we are all human all different and can all have a different opinion and still be normal. If we was all the same with the same thoughts life would be boring

I'm disappointed that I haven't come across similar posts to this, just sarcastic, sardonic remarks about OP's question.

If you're watching and observing, you would realise the outlandish theories that people rebuffed a year ago are now slowly creeping into manifestation.

Normalising vax passports/ mandates is absolutely absurd, nobody's livelihood should hinge upon their vaccination status.

Look at the U.S, look at what's going on in Australia. How could shrug off seeing the unvaccinated being made an underclass? Publicly chastised? Denied basic freedoms? Unending lockdowns? It's concerning to see such indifference about it.

I urge others... Pay attention to what's happening around you. Don't be so quick to call everybody a tinfoiler, because when it goes left, you'd wish you paused and listened.

Genuinely not being horrible @Mummapenguin20 but what makes you come to conclusion the covid vaccine is a human trial?

A human trial for what?
Do you not think c19 exists ?

Yep it exsists. Nobody knows the effects of this jab as it wasnt tested on humans over a long period. All my children have there normal vaxs and once im happy nobodys grown extra arms n legs lol we will have the covid one but id rather know long term effects ect before haing that put in me or my children

@aboverubies7 come on then, enlighten us with what conspiracy’s are becoming reality?

Why don’t you agree with vaccine passports? Do you think there’s an infinite amount of icu beds available for people who aren’t vaccinated?
Do you think it’s ok that the unvaccinated are causing hospitals to not be functional atm? Cancer patients waiting for treatment and diagnosis, surgery’s being cancelled.

Something has to be done somewhere.

@Mummapenguin20 whilst knowing and risking the very well known long term affects COVID is leaving people with?

The ‘normal’ jabs all come with risks, why were those risks ok for you to accept but the covid one isn’t?
Anti vaxers have always sprouted rubbish about all vaccines, it’s not unique to the covid ones.

Normal jabs, have been around years ive grown into adult hood had children been fine as such therefore my children have them. The covid vax has not been around years nobody knows the long term effects and the children wont be having that the scientists said it was not nessasery chris witty ordered it. The long term effects of covid? Or is it the long term effects of us being in lockdown breaking down our immune systems. Im not a scientist i dont know. But what i do know is a family member is a nurse on a covid ward and advised me its best to wait. My guts telling me to wait see how things go and that i will follow. It was by no means a snap decision. Its been batted around long and hard like i said earlier we are all diffrent and entittled to our own views this makes the world work