Why are all the Covid conspiracy theory’s coming true?

[sunnnysideup]

Honest question?

Once again, go and read the Lancet study. That's credible experts publishing the claim in a peer-reviewed journal.

Again, I have no idea what point you think you're making?

The lancet study is reporting numbers from trial data - efficacy was 95%. This isn't a claim or a guess, it's what happened.

They didn't extrapolate this to say vaccine would prevent infection

@borntobequiet

So 95% = 100% and “almost completely” means completely. Strange.

I never claimed "completely" - herecomesthesun modified that. I claimed:

Just like how people are now saying "no one ever claimed the vaccines prevented you from catching Covid"

It's a very poor and underhand debating tactic - to disprove something that is similar to the claim ("reputable scientists were saying that the vaccines were 100% effective") that was made and then erroneously conflating that the original claim (that it was untrue that no one ever claimed the vaccines prevented you from catching Covid) is untrue.

I'm still trying to decide whether people are doing this because they are stupid or because they are mendacious...

If the Lancet study suggests 95% reduction in transmission, well people could still be passing the virus on couldn't they

plus delta is a more transmissible variant, which is relevant, it wasn't around in May

scientists really haven't tried to mislead people or make false promises

and the covid vaccine seems to be a lot more effective than we are used to with the flu vaccine

How these things are reported and oversimplified in the media is another point

we need much better STEM education in the UK

Just because she also says she doesn't know how long protection will last doesn't detract from the fact she also stated the vaccines may stop people passing on the virus “almost completely” which is what the media and many people picked up on.

Uhuh, and none of this is proving the point that an expert stated vaccines would prevent infect infection.

As I posted before, the media and politicians have consistently mangled and reported misinformation regarding coronavirus, vaccines, and various policies.

we need much better STEM education in the UK

yup, it's shocking

@ollyollyoxenfree

Once again, go and read the Lancet study. That's credible experts publishing the claim in a peer-reviewed journal.

Again, I have no idea what point you think you're making?

The lancet study is reporting numbers from trial data - efficacy was 95%. This isn't a claim or a guess, it's what happened.

They didn't extrapolate this to say vaccine would prevent infection

Have you even read it? The Lancet study referenced was not trial data - it was early data from Israel. Really, I'm not going to bother engaging with you any more if you keep wilfully misrepresenting things.

not mendacious

if vaccines are only 95% effective then people who are vaccinated can still transmit

it is therefore no surprise when transmission still happens, albeit at a lesser rate, involving vaccinated people?

it would only be a surprise if vaccines were to stop transmission completely

Have you even read it? The Lancet study referenced was not trial data - it was early data from Israel. Really, I'm not going to bother engaging with you any more if you keep wilfully misrepresenting things.

There are several lancet 2021 papers regarding pfizer efficacy, it's up to to link the manuscript if you want to make sure people know which one you're referring to

@ollyollyoxenfree

Just because she also says she doesn't know how long protection will last doesn't detract from the fact she also stated the vaccines may stop people passing on the virus “almost completely” which is what the media and many people picked up on.

Uhuh, and none of this is proving the point that an expert stated vaccines would prevent infect infection.

As I posted before, the media and politicians have consistently mangled and reported misinformation regarding coronavirus, vaccines, and various policies.

I did just say I would stop engaging, but for the last time...

My point was never that "an expert stated vaccines would prevent infect infection" [sic]. I have nonetheless proved this (ref the Lancet article from May) as anyone reading this thread will be able to see - even if you can't.

My point was that it is not true that "no one ever claimed the vaccines prevented you from catching Covid". Well, I showed you a big headline in the Jerusalem Post (hardly a fringe media outlet) and other examples have been provided by other posters. Anyone reading this thread will be able to see this as plain as day.

Yet you still twist and turn and attempt to deny, obfuscate and change the frame of reference. I'm not sure anyone can be that stupid, so I think I'm gong with deliberately dishonest/mendacious.

You mean like conspiracy theories deniers even when the facts are right there.

@ollyollyoxenfree

Have you even read it? The Lancet study referenced was not trial data - it was early data from Israel. Really, I'm not going to bother engaging with you any more if you keep wilfully misrepresenting things.

There are several lancet 2021 papers regarding pfizer efficacy, it's up to to link the manuscript if you want to make sure people know which one you're referring to

Since you're too lazy to do your own research, I'll put this up for the benefit of everyone else:

www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(21)00947-8/fulltext

In the findings section it states

"Adjusted estimates of vaccine effectiveness at 7 days or longer after the second dose were 95·3% against SARS-CoV-2 infection"

How do you plan to twist out of this one now?

Yet you still twist and turn and attempt to deny, obfuscate and change the frame of reference. I'm not sure anyone can be that stupid, so I think I'm gong with deliberately dishonest/mendacious.

Your posts are truly bizarre (and not very nice but that's by the by).

This is what you posted:

Just like how people are now saying "no one ever claimed the vaccines prevented you from catching Covid".

You are not able to provide any links from credible experts stating the vaccines would prevent infection, therefore, not sure what point you're trying to prove.

www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(21)00947-8/fulltext

In the findings section it states

"Adjusted estimates of vaccine effectiveness at 7 days or longer after the second dose were 95·3% against SARS-CoV-2 infection"

How do you plan to twist out of this one now?

Those were the findings @IncredulousOne. When you conduct analyses, you report the methods and numbers derived. It's how manuscripts are prepared. You can't get angry at someone reporting what their analyses showed, unless you think the data/methods are dodgy.

As they said

There were marked and sustained declines in SARS-CoV-2 incidence corresponding to increasing vaccine coverage. These findings suggest that COVID-19 vaccination can help to control the pandemic.

Perfectly reasonable and cautious interpretation of their findings at the time.

More detail on this in their discussion

SARS-CoV-2 transmission is likely to continue until the proportion of the population with immunity exceeds a herd immunity threshold,26 which has been estimated to be at least 60%,27 although the emergence of more transmissible SARS-CoV-2 variants could result in higher herd immunity thresholds. Achieving the SARS-CoV-2 herd immunity threshold might not be reached, however, without vaccinating some individuals younger than 16 years. In addition, the duration of immunity to SARS-CoV-2, either from infection or immunisation, is not known, and progress towards herd immunity in Israel could be disrupted by the emergence of new SARS-CoV-2 variants if those variants are less susceptible to the current vaccine-induced immune response and if they were to become broadly disseminated. Further studies are needed to monitor the population level of immunity, identify disruption of viral transmission, and detect and evaluate the effects of emerging SARS-CoV-2 variants.

Note the phrase that can't be found anywhere in the manuscript? @IncredulousOne

Yup that's right "vaccines prevent infection"

I haven't had any loss of freedom. I've been abroad last year and this year for a a holiday. I've been swimming, the pub, cinema.... lots of places.

Are you ok op?

Don't be so stupid, OP: www.reuters.com/article/factcheck-coronavirus-vaccines-idUSL1N2PK1DC

@ollyollyoxenfree

Yet you still twist and turn and attempt to deny, obfuscate and change the frame of reference. I'm not sure anyone can be that stupid, so I think I'm gong with deliberately dishonest/mendacious.

Your posts are truly bizarre (and not very nice but that's by the by).

This is what you posted:

Just like how people are now saying "no one ever claimed the vaccines prevented you from catching Covid".

You are not able to provide any links from credible experts stating the vaccines would prevent infection, therefore, not sure what point you're trying to prove.

Okay, is a UK Government website from Public Health England a credible source?

www.gov.uk/government/news/covid-19-vaccine-surveillance-report-published

It explicitly says "There is evidence that vaccines prevent infection and transmission". I've even attached a screenshot with the relevant words highlighted, so you don't need to tax your brain actually reading through the content...

I'm still trying to decide whether people are doing this because they are stupid or because they are mendacious...

Well I’m not stupid, that’ll make it easier for you, not that what you think bothers me one bit.

[quote thelastgoldeneagle]Don't be so stupid, OP: www.reuters.com/article/factcheck-coronavirus-vaccines-idUSL1N2PK1DC[/quote]
Yes, that is correct - the vaccines do not alter your DNA. It is a common misunderstanding, and such misinformation should be countered.

However, this does not demonstrate that the OP's other points are invalid (or valid).

@borntobequiet

I'm still trying to decide whether people are doing this because they are stupid or because they are mendacious...

Well I’m not stupid, that’ll make it easier for you, not that what you think bothers me one bit.

I guess it's mendacious then. Employed by big Pharma?

@borntobequiet

I'm still trying to decide whether people are doing this because they are stupid or because they are mendacious...

Well I’m not stupid, that’ll make it easier for you, not that what you think bothers me one bit.

Quite, I'm not sure if I'd be in my current position if I was stupid or not great with science

@IncredulousOne

If you read the full document, it clearly gives efficacy percentages.

assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1018416/Vaccine_surveillance_report_-_week_37_v2.pdf

Effectiveness against infection
Although individuals may not develop symptoms of COVID-19 after vaccination, it is
possible that they could still be infected with the virus and could transmit to others.
Understanding how effective vaccines are at preventing infection is therefore important
to predict the likely impact of the vaccination programme on the wider population. In
order to estimate vaccine effectiveness against infection, repeat asymptomatic testing of
a defined cohort of individuals is required. Studies have now reported on vaccine
effectiveness against infection in healthcare workers, care home residents and the
general population (12, 13, 14, 15). With the delta variant, vaccine effectiveness against
infection has been estimated at around 65% with Vaxzevria and 80% with Comirnaty (4)

etc etc

You've also linked info from this month, so not really relevant to your claims that prior to efficacy waning, experts were claiming vaccines stop infection and transmission?

@ollyollyoxenfree

You've also linked info from this month, so not really relevant to your claims that prior to efficacy waning, experts were claiming vaccines stop infection and transmission?

Originally published 14th May, dimwit

@Bananasinpyjamas21

Mandatory vaccines? I’ve worked in healthcare and had to have extra vaccinations for years - for hepatitis - for some reason no conspiracy theorist was bothered that it was ‘strongly recommended’ before I worked on hospital wards. We health professionals have been quietly protecting our patients for years!

Me too!

We were done before the whole Andrew Wakefield thing too so we didn’t make a fuss.

Odd how you don’t get people complaining about travel vaccines isn’t it? “Oh I had a jab for Japanese encephalitis & now I have Japanese encephalitis”