Us and them- the vaccine. So much pressure

[ToTheLetter01]

Before i begin, i am not an anti vaxxer. Me and my DS have had all our jabs and we also have annual flu jabs.
However i feel such hostility and pressure from people who have had their vaccine for me to have it. The reason i do not want it at this moment is just because its still in the experimental stage until 2023 and i would like to know more long term data.
This is my choice, its my body and everyone should have the choice. Choice to have the vaccine and choice to not. I do not shame nor ridicule anyone for having it or not.
However i have felt so much pressure from friends and others in the wider public, media, government.

I feel like the nation is becoming split between us and them. ( vaccinated and unvaccinated). With things becoming unfair for people. Eg. may be able to travel and not quarantine if had vaccines, care home workers may be forced to have the vaccine. Now i get the point of view of they have had it and may be more "safe". But how is the ok in a freedom and rights point of view. As i stated freedom to do what you want with your body.

I feel like this world is becoming some kind of dystopian world. I miss my old life, i took all the freedom for granted. Its true that you don't realise how good it was until it's gone.
I don't want people to be hostile to me because of my choice to wait for long term data on the vaccine. Half of me wants to lie to people i've had it so they will not be stand off towards me.

Thanks for the replies everyone. I genuinely wasn't aware that they reduce transmission rates. Has this been announced anywhere? I was speaking to my mum yesterday and we both spoke about how it only stops you getting very ill and and doesn't stop you spreading it so she wasn't aware either.

In fairness I have been trying to avoid too much covid news as it is not great to spend too much time reading about it but I don't feel like it has been widely reported enough.

Announcemant re transmission

www.gov.uk/government/news/one-dose-of-covid-19-vaccine-can-cut-household-transmission-by-up-to-half

Yes Lauren1983 it has been announced - see for example here about the reduction in transmission for even one dose. This is why people get a little frustrated with people who still want the freedoms but dont want the vaccine www.gov.uk/government/news/one-dose-of-covid-19-vaccine-can-cut-household-transmission-by-up-to-half
Well, that plus if they get covid they put the people who need to care for them at risk.

A great result if people on this thread are open-minded enough to learn something that's backed up by scientific evidence.

I had no idea it reduced transmission. They probably need to run an ad campaign about that. I am slightly more annoyed than I was by the anti-vaxxers now.

@Lauren1983

Thanks for the replies everyone. I genuinely wasn't aware that they reduce transmission rates. Has this been announced anywhere? I was speaking to my mum yesterday and we both spoke about how it only stops you getting very ill and and doesn't stop you spreading it so she wasn't aware either.

In fairness I have been trying to avoid too much covid news as it is not great to spend too much time reading about it but I don't feel like it has been widely reported enough.

here's some recent articles :)

www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-56904993

www.nationalgeographic.com/science/article/yes-vaccines-block-most-transmission-of-covid-19

news.sky.com/story/covid-19-single-dose-of-vaccine-can-cut-transmission-by-up-to-half-study-12288998

Has this been announced anywhere?

Yes, there’s been loads of media coverage about it since March/April. Here’s ITV

I was speaking to my mum yesterday and we both spoke about how it only stops you getting very ill and and doesn't stop you spreading it so she wasn't aware either.

This is very worrying, because no one involved with any of the vaccines has ever said that they would only stop you getting very ill.

They did say in the early days that they may not prevent transmission and people should continue to be very careful on that basis, as we had no data yet. Though I recall both Patrick Vallance and Jonathan Van Tam saying at the time that they would be extremely surprised if the vaccines did not lower infections and transmission.

Thanks to all the posters faster than me and who are similarly evangelical about this info!

Would it be correct to say that reduced transmission is also reducing the ability of the virus to have a field day mutating into possibly more transmissible and vaccine resistant strains? Not just a ‘you do you’ situation but one where the less unvaccinated people mean overall reduced risk for everybody?

Yes definitely, MilesOfSand, that's another benefit of getting as many people vaccinated as possible!

@MilesOfSand

Would it be correct to say that reduced transmission is also reducing the ability of the virus to have a field day mutating into possibly more transmissible and vaccine resistant strains? Not just a ‘you do you’ situation but one where the less unvaccinated people mean overall reduced risk for everybody?

yes definitely

the virus only gets the chance to mutate when it is transmitted to a new host

reduced transmission = reduced rate of mutation =reduced chance of new variants emerging which may escape prior immunity

this is why population level immunity is so important, if it continues circulating in a large proportion of the population, it risks a rate of mutation that we can't keep up with in terms of vaccination

I agree PurpleyBlue that maybe some new adverts should run explaining this. I think a lot of people have been avoiding the news due to covid overload so a simple advert could well help.

Would it be correct to say that reduced transmission is also reducing the ability of the virus to have a field day mutating into possibly more transmissible and vaccine resistant strains? Not just a ‘you do you’ situation but one where the less unvaccinated people mean overall reduced risk for everybody.

Yes. Every prevented infection is a prevented series of opportunities for the vaccine to mutate in another person.

Just like every person who has less severe disease with lower viral replication is providing fewer opportunities for mutation.

Every extra replication is an extra risk.

The fact that it reduces transmission has been repeated endlessly on here. Endlessly. Yet the same posters will post constantly "But why should I take the vaccine? It does not reduce transmission." Feel like this should be a sticky note at the top of the forum.

You are free to not take the vaccine, but sorry, you can't control what other people think of you, especially when you are so ill-informed.

I know what you're saying OP I feel as though the only answer is for me to have it due to pressure however I'm happy to do so because

1. Family and friends ranging from 30 -85 have had it with no massive issues apart from sore arm and groggy
2. We don't know the 'long term' affect of the vaccine but we don't know the 'long term' affect of covid either
3. If I didn't get it and became really ill with covid I'd feel a fool
4. I could say 'i'm young and would fight it off', but in reality I could catch it tomorrow and become hospitalised
5. I'm willing to put my trust in the nhs, science, virologists, drs and many more and assume they wouldn't roll out a vaccine programme which would harm most of us and have considered the long term

@Justgettingbye

I know what you're saying OP I feel as though the only answer is for me to have it due to pressure however I'm happy to do so because

1. Family and friends ranging from 30 -85 have had it with no massive issues apart from sore arm and groggy
2. We don't know the 'long term' affect of the vaccine but we don't know the 'long term' affect of covid either
3. If I didn't get it and became really ill with covid I'd feel a fool
4. I could say 'i'm young and would fight it off', but in reality I could catch it tomorrow and become hospitalised
5. I'm willing to put my trust in the nhs, science, virologists, drs and many more and assume they wouldn't roll out a vaccine programme which would harm most of us and have considered the long term

1. Also if all of us were wary we wouldn't get anywhere and tackle this virus!

*I find it really odd how quiet he's been on the coronavirus vaccines?

surely this is his time to shine?!*

He usually observes rather than makes predictions @speckledostrichegg

I think he’s waiting to see how the vaccines pan out before commenting.

I'm sure you'll enjoy the freedoms that come when restrictions are lifted, because of those of us who have had the vaccine?

Dr Richard Halvorsen is the medical director of BabyJabs. Richard has worked as a GP in central London for over 20 years. He is concerned about the increasing number of vaccines given to babies, especially when these are for diseases that are either uncommon or rarely serious. As a GP, he offered his NHS patients mercury-free vaccines before these were available on the NHS, when he offered parents a choice between the MMR and single vaccines for many years

Hang on, is he simultaneously saying we give babies too many pointless vaccines because these diseases are rare because of vaccines and flogging vaccines? Surely you’d just conclude there was no need for the vaccine based off his first statement?

The vaccines available in the UK stop infection and onward transmission in the majority of cases.

Re transmission, what are you basing this on? Here, on the UK Government vaccine surveillance report week 23 published June 10, transmission of secondary cases shows either no data or inconclusive/little evidence available. These vaccines are so new, I think that data on safety and efficiency are still not known / being gathered.

Source: assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/992741/Vaccine_surveillance_report_-_week_23.pdf

Did you not see all the links above re the PHE study, Farmer?

These vaccines are so new, I think that data on safety and efficiency are still not known / being gathered.

Well you think wrong. We know they are safe.

www.gov.uk/government/news/one-dose-of-covid-19-vaccine-can-cut-household-transmission-by-up-to-half

@Dustyboots

*I find it really odd how quiet he's been on the coronavirus vaccines?

surely this is his time to shine?!*

He usually observes rather than makes predictions @speckledostrichegg

I think he’s waiting to see how the vaccines pan out before commenting.

that doesn't seem to be the case in the slightest @Dustyboots

he claims vaccines under 6months cause asthma and allergies in children, based on a single observational study which the authors state cannot be used as evidence for causality

Our results, which should be cautiously interpreted, suggest that the prevalence of asthma, wheeze and eczema among children at 12 months of age might be related to the amount of inactivated vaccine exposure before 6 months of age. Future work should assess if this association is due to cumulative adjuvant exposure. Despite this possible association, we strongly support the global vaccination strategy and recommend that immunisations continue.

Is that Richard Halvorsen who was still pushing the MMR/autism myth on his website until the ASA forced him to take it down, and who was still peddling it in the Daily Mail in 2019?

Or a different bloke with a commercial interest in MMR misinformation?

I think he’s more anti vax than he says @speckledostrichegg but tries to toe the line a bit so as not to get struck off like Wakefield.

@loulouljh Covid is the most dangerous thing this world has faced in a generation.

I work in the NHS and things we have seen during the pandemic are horrific. Your comment shows a level of misunderstanding that is mind blowing and offensive.