Us and them- the vaccine. So much pressure

[ToTheLetter01]

Before i begin, i am not an anti vaxxer. Me and my DS have had all our jabs and we also have annual flu jabs.
However i feel such hostility and pressure from people who have had their vaccine for me to have it. The reason i do not want it at this moment is just because its still in the experimental stage until 2023 and i would like to know more long term data.
This is my choice, its my body and everyone should have the choice. Choice to have the vaccine and choice to not. I do not shame nor ridicule anyone for having it or not.
However i have felt so much pressure from friends and others in the wider public, media, government.

I feel like the nation is becoming split between us and them. ( vaccinated and unvaccinated). With things becoming unfair for people. Eg. may be able to travel and not quarantine if had vaccines, care home workers may be forced to have the vaccine. Now i get the point of view of they have had it and may be more "safe". But how is the ok in a freedom and rights point of view. As i stated freedom to do what you want with your body.

I feel like this world is becoming some kind of dystopian world. I miss my old life, i took all the freedom for granted. Its true that you don't realise how good it was until it's gone.
I don't want people to be hostile to me because of my choice to wait for long term data on the vaccine. Half of me wants to lie to people i've had it so they will not be stand off towards me.

@Dustyboots

*Dr Richard Halvorsen is the medical director of BabyJabs. Richard has worked as a GP in central London for over 20 years. He is concerned about the increasing number of vaccines given to babies, especially when these are for diseases that are either uncommon or rarely serious. As a GP, he offered his NHS patients mercury-free vaccines before these were available on the NHS, when he offered parents a choice between the MMR and single vaccines for many years.

He wanted to give all parents the opportunity to choose which vaccines to give their child, and when they should be given – a choice that is not available with the NHS schedule. This led to the formation of a dedicated children’s immunisation service, BabyJabs, in 2007.

Richard has written The Truth about Vaccines, which was first published in 2007. A much expanded and updated 4th edition was published in 2017 which is titled Vaccines: making the right choice for your child. He has talked and written widely on immunisation in the media.

He founded BabyJabs in response to parents’ concerns about vaccine safety and demands for a greater choice of vaccines for their children.*

Can you not engage with people who have different views @speckledostrichegg?

Open mindedness and willingness to hear other thoughts and opinions is an asset isn't it? You may be a doctor/scientist ... I don't know and don't care - but I wouldn't want to be in your care if you were. This is why I am sceptical and sometimes fearful of mainstream medicine. It is very much a closed minded shop - where professionals believe only what is printed in their text books. Why is it seen as shameful to look beyond and question - the basics that you are taught?

Scientists discover through questioning the "truths" that they were told and taught. This is how science has evolved. What was 'known' a hundred years ago is often no longer seen as fact anymore.

@Dustyboots

you are quoting from the bio on his website which he has written himself, clearly it's not going to an unbiased review

yes i'm open minded, and yes I "question truth", except we definitely don't refer to it like that at work.

I very openly minded read his papers and assessed them as being crap His views are not based on robust science and have no basis in evidence based medicine. This is a view shared by the medical community.

He was very upset when his pal Wakefield was "attacked" for his anti-vax views that led to the MMR autism scare
www.drhalvorsen.co.uk/BMJ_attacks_Wakefield.html

Practically the first thing they did when I was taken to hospital last November with covid , was to do an MRI scan to check for pulmonary embolism. There is a much greater chance of getting clots from covid than there is from the vaccination.
I was lucky to be not too ill ( in hospital a week) but my DD who is a nurse was in hospital for over two weeks , ITU for one week and then HDU for the rest of her stay . 8 months later she is still not fully recovered and has only just been able to return to work on much reduced hours . She is 47 and was previously healthy.

This led to the formation of a dedicated children’s immunisation service, BabyJabs, in 2007.

Where kindly ol' Dr Halvorsen gives these much safer drugs out for free, no doubt.

I honestly don’t see this in rl.

People have the vaccine, relieved to feel good about getting out of this.

On here it’s all nightmare and heightened tension. Really strange. Maybe it’s what you feel if you talk about not having it on SM I don’t know.

But no there’s none of this animosity, just good nature and good will towards moving on.

@Cafeaulait27 yes, it is making my blood pressure rise too. Time to step away.

You are right - uptake is high so we can afford for people like the OP not to take the vaccine. I just wish they would stop whining about it and/or trying to make other people worried about taking it.

I think if you don't want it, you shouldn't feel pressured to have it.
But only thing that slightly irritates me is that people saying "it's experimental vaccine so I would like to wait," etc. So you are ok for people who are willing to take it to be experiment subject so you can have time to think and make sure it's safe.

I think people are spiralling reading some of these posts.

Yes I don’t see any of this in real life either thankfully @MarshaBradyo
Everyone is relieved to have the vaccine and try to get on with their lives.

Mumsnet is like a parallel universe sometimes.

As for Dr H, his twitter feed is bonkers, but it's comforting to see he only has a few hundred followers. No one is really listening to him.

twitter.com/drrhalvorsen?lang=en

[quote youshouldbeplotting]@Cafeaulait27 yes, it is making my blood pressure rise too. Time to step away.

You are right - uptake is high so we can afford for people like the OP not to take the vaccine. I just wish they would stop whining about it and/or trying to make other people worried about taking it.[/quote]
yes honestly these views are not common in real life, the UK has a good uptake and you're not going to change anyone's mind (and often they'll just swerve onto another topic like BUT HCQ IS AN EFFECTIVE TREATMENT). I think a lot of posters prolifically name change which gives the impression there's far more people with these kinds of views than there actually are.

step away when the BP goes up

[quote youshouldbeplotting]As for Dr H, his twitter feed is bonkers, but it's comforting to see he only has a few hundred followers. No one is really listening to him.

twitter.com/drrhalvorsen?lang=en[/quote]
I find it really odd how quiet he's been on the coronavirus vaccines?

surely this is his time to shine?!

@XenoBitch

I agree, OP. It does feel like us and them out there. I am not convinced that mandatory vaccination will stop with care workers. It is terrifying and I don't want to live in this nightmare.

I don't want my vulnerable relative being cared for by unvaccinated people. Elderly people deserve to be as safe as possible.

Jealous?
No, I feel pity for those who have put their faith in pseudoscience, quacks and extremist anti-vaxxers. There’s no shame in admitting you can’t weigh up risk according to verified information presented to you. You don’t have to hide behind the twaddle spouted by people who wouldn’t give a second thought to you if you were very ill with Covid or died from it.
Say I’m scared of needles, say I’m scared but don’t have the scientific intellect to unpick why, say I don’t really care about other people and I’m low risk if I do get it. I can respect all those points of view even if I don’t agree with them.
Not as much pity as I feel for those who genuinely can’t have the vaccine because of valid medical reasons, mind.

It's also frustrating because @ToTheLetter01 has received many well thought out replies from people saying they don't think anyone should be pressured or judged after not having a vaccine, but this decision may come with drawbacks, and has ignored all of them and refused to engage

I was also interested in their viewpoint of whether they think non-vulnerable people should be vaccinated (and if so why not), but alas, no reply

You can still get covid even if you have the vaccine just potentially less severe so you could still pass it on to your children or vulnerable people and have to hope it's not severe for them either.

OH GOD NOT THIS AGAIN.

The vaccines available in the UK stop infection and onward transmission in the majority of cases.

They are not ‘just’ making the illness ‘potentially less severe’. They prevent the majority of infections and if you are one of the minority who is infected after vaccination, the vaccine will prevent onward transmission in the majority of cases.

That’s why in the US, fully vaccinated people are generally not required to wear masks and why countries like France are opening quarantine-free travel to fully vaccinated people. Because fully vaccinated people are not only less at risk themselves, they have been shown to be less of a risk to others.

Please could people stop spouting misleading bollocks? Ta.

Bill Gates has probably got the fragrant Dr H bound and gagged in a cellar somewhere speckled.

@youshouldbeplotting

Bill Gates has probably got the fragrant Dr H bound and gagged in a cellar somewhere speckled.

Right - so - if you don't have the vaccine, and end up with Covid in hospital - you still want to be looked after?

What if the dystopian future included not providing hospital care for those people who chose not to have the vaccine?

That would put a different spin on it.

Well said @JassyRadlett

It gets tiring having to correct all the crap spouted on here. Plus it’s quite dangerous/influential.

Can anyone clarify something for me please? As far as I know the vaccine does not stop you getting covid nor stop you spreading it so I thought it was just about reducing your own risk rather and not about anyone else. Do I have this wrong? Does your risk of covid increase if you spend time with someone unvaccinated?

I guess the argument is about decreasing the pressure on hospitals but if your risk of covid is low anyway would it make that much difference?

@Lauren1983 the vaccine significantly reduces transmission

@Delatron I feel increasingly like I’m just a roving fact checker on this one specific issue for people who apparently haven’t read anything in January and for whom ‘may not prevent’ and ‘will not prevent’ are strangely synonymous.

@Lauren1983 Please see my post of 1735.

In the early days off mass rollout, we didn’t have data on infection and transmission because they weren’t the evaluation criteria for the trials.

We now have loads of data, and we know that the vaccines available in the UK all stop the majority of infections, and for that minority who do get infected, prevents the majority of onward transmissions.

As you have pointed out, they are also shit hot at preventing severe illness and death.

@Lauren1983

Can anyone clarify something for me please? As far as I know the vaccine does not stop you getting covid nor stop you spreading it so I thought it was just about reducing your own risk rather and not about anyone else. Do I have this wrong? Does your risk of covid increase if you spend time with someone unvaccinated?

I guess the argument is about decreasing the pressure on hospitals but if your risk of covid is low anyway would it make that much difference?

The vaccine substantially reduces the risk of you both getting or transmitting Covid. Therefore, if you don't have the vaccine then you are increasing the risk to those around you.

If it only affected your risk then people probably wouldn't be so annoyed with the unvaccinated. However, they are increasing everyone's risk with their decision to stay unvaccinated.

@Lauren1983

Can anyone clarify something for me please? As far as I know the vaccine does not stop you getting covid nor stop you spreading it so I thought it was just about reducing your own risk rather and not about anyone else. Do I have this wrong? Does your risk of covid increase if you spend time with someone unvaccinated?

I guess the argument is about decreasing the pressure on hospitals but if your risk of covid is low anyway would it make that much difference?

Just gonna copy and paste this right here .... @JassyRadlett

The vaccines available in the UK stop infection and onward transmission in the majority of cases.

They are not ‘just’ making the illness ‘potentially less severe’. They prevent the majority of infections and if you are one of the minority who is infected after vaccination, the vaccine will prevent onward transmission in the majority of cases.

That’s why in the US, fully vaccinated people are generally not required to wear masks and why countries like France are opening quarantine-free travel to fully vaccinated people. Because fully vaccinated people are not only less at risk themselves, they have been shown to be less of a risk to others.

Please could people stop spouting misleading bollocks? Ta.