Us and them- the vaccine. So much pressure

[ToTheLetter01]

Before i begin, i am not an anti vaxxer. Me and my DS have had all our jabs and we also have annual flu jabs.
However i feel such hostility and pressure from people who have had their vaccine for me to have it. The reason i do not want it at this moment is just because its still in the experimental stage until 2023 and i would like to know more long term data.
This is my choice, its my body and everyone should have the choice. Choice to have the vaccine and choice to not. I do not shame nor ridicule anyone for having it or not.
However i have felt so much pressure from friends and others in the wider public, media, government.

I feel like the nation is becoming split between us and them. ( vaccinated and unvaccinated). With things becoming unfair for people. Eg. may be able to travel and not quarantine if had vaccines, care home workers may be forced to have the vaccine. Now i get the point of view of they have had it and may be more "safe". But how is the ok in a freedom and rights point of view. As i stated freedom to do what you want with your body.

I feel like this world is becoming some kind of dystopian world. I miss my old life, i took all the freedom for granted. Its true that you don't realise how good it was until it's gone.
I don't want people to be hostile to me because of my choice to wait for long term data on the vaccine. Half of me wants to lie to people i've had it so they will not be stand off towards me.

@Dustyboots

I think he’s more anti vax than he says *@speckledostrichegg* but tries to toe the line a bit so as not to get struck off like Wakefield.

that isn't a good thing?

Totally agree with you OP and feel the same. I have chosen not to have mine and am fully aware that I may lose my job within the NHS (although it's totally against human rights) and know I wont be able to freely travel abroad which I feel fine with considering we love to holiday in the UK anyway.

Dustyboots
I think he’s more anti vax than he says @speckledostrichegg* but tries to toe the line a bit so as not to get struck off like Wakefield.
that isn't a good thing?*

Good, bad whatever. It’s just a thing. Not even a thing. What is a thing?

@youshouldbeplotting So you only think it worth listening to someone if they have lots of Twitter followers?
Then you must be hanging onto every word uttered by Piers Morgan, Christie Teigen and other such luminaries of compassion, sense and wisdom who have millions of them 🤪

@loulouljh

But the danger is not covid. That's the issue! The danger is people following like sheep, not having any independent thought, being intolerant of other people's views, being unable to debate without resorting to personal insults. The danger is also the fact we have now have incompetent dictatorship ruling this country with zero opposition. The danger is the fact we have screwed a whole generation of children. The danger is the huge backlogs with the NHS, the cancers going undetected. Those to me are the dangers. Not covid. That is small fry.

Agree with this.

@Dustyboots

Dustyboots I think he’s more anti vax than he says @speckledostrichegg* but tries to toe the line a bit so as not to get struck off like Wakefield. that isn't a good thing?*

Good, bad whatever. It’s just a thing. Not even a thing. What is a thing?

you're using him to justify your views on vaccination

he makes claims based on non-robust evidence and speculation which have been widely disproved by the medical community

he is clearly not a credible source for information on vaccination

you saying "he's more anti-vax than he says" is surely you acknowledging he's not an unbiased source?

@youshouldbeplotting

Yes, I have seen that, it says can cut by up to 50%...

I think that is estimated rather than evidence-based, the chart on the PHE vaccine report I linked to is titled 'Summary of evidence on vaccine effectiveness against different outcomes'

@loulouljh Referring to 100,000 + deaths as small fry! You do realise that global death from COVID top 3.8 million. Yours are the most offensive posts I have seen here.

@Dustyboots

What are your thoughts on those on the vaccine trials? Who put themselves forward without knowing what the side effects may be?

Honestly? I think they're crazy and stupid.

Are you completely against all modern medicine then? You take now and will never take any medications at all and will receive no medical therapies or procedures?

Research and trials are vital to increasing our ability to fight all kinds of illnesses and make lives better for the people impacted by them.

But I guess don't give a shiny shit about any of that.

What an incredibly, hmm let's say naive, and utterly selfish point of view

Well you think wrong. We know they are safe.

OK that's fine. I was referring more to the transmission reduction on the link I posted to the PHE stats, stating that it is as yet inconclusive how much transmission is reduced by the vaccines

@ToTheLetter01

Before i begin, i am not an anti vaxxer. Me and my DS have had all our jabs and we also have annual flu jabs. However i feel such hostility and pressure from people who have had their vaccine for me to have it. The reason i do not want it at this moment is just because its still in the experimental stage until 2023 and i would like to know more long term data. This is my choice, its my body and everyone should have the choice. Choice to have the vaccine and choice to not. I do not shame nor ridicule anyone for having it or not. However i have felt so much pressure from friends and others in the wider public, media, government.

I feel like the nation is becoming split between us and them. ( vaccinated and unvaccinated). With things becoming unfair for people. Eg. may be able to travel and not quarantine if had vaccines, care home workers may be forced to have the vaccine. Now i get the point of view of they have had it and may be more "safe". But how is the ok in a freedom and rights point of view. As i stated freedom to do what you want with your body.

I feel like this world is becoming some kind of dystopian world. I miss my old life, i took all the freedom for granted. Its true that you don't realise how good it was until it's gone.
I don't want people to be hostile to me because of my choice to wait for long term data on the vaccine. Half of me wants to lie to people i've had it so they will not be stand off towards me.

The choice is yours. It always will be. But you need to accept that others are going to judge. So don't tell them. By 2023, this virus will have ceased to become a problem in the same way that the 'Spanish flu' did. Unfortunately, there was always going to be a potential 'us and them' scenario regarding partaking in activities if you have been vaccinated. This is just common sense. One of the consequences of your decision is that you may need to fire go these activities for a while. You are going to have to suck it up

@loulouljh

Do you work in schools? If you did you'd understand that school staff are desperate for this to be over as currently covid is rife in schools and causing huge amount of disruption with isolation.

The more people who are taking the vaccination help us get back to normal more quickly.

I can't have the vaccines. Any of them, for genuine medical reasons and I've been told by my Drs that I cannot. I have posted on here about it not too long ago as I feel absolutely terrible that I can't be vaccinated because if I don't, I'm risking other people.

People who don't have genuine reasons not to do it, are quite honestly just selfish. Because the people who actually cannot have it, those of us who would be actually risking our lives to do so, do need everyone around us to be vaccinated.

But you're too precious and selfish to do it so, thanks for that.

@JassyRadlett please explain how any medic who doesn’t toe the party line re vaccines can possibly have any “commercial interest in MMR misinformation”? Anyone who steps away from the conventional narrative loses their livelihood and is the subject of constant abuse, harassment and scorn - your post being the very least of it.
Please make your point, whatever it is, without resorting to these kind of ad hominem attacks.

Here’s Harris et al from March, putting it at 40-50% from a single dose and allowing their data limitations include some cases as secondary when they were likely co-primary.

khub.net/documents/135939561/390853656/Impact+of+vaccination+on+household+transmission+of+SARS-COV-2+in+England.pdf/35bf4bb1-6ade-d3eb-a39e-9c9b25a8122a

I know there are more recent studies that put the average reduction over 50% - in the middle of other things now but will share later when I’ve found the primary sources.

@YarnOver So anyone who disagrees with you is “ precious and selfish”?
Come on, Covid Cultists, be better.
These kind of insults are not winning your war.

[quote Sadsiblingatsea]@YarnOver So anyone who disagrees with you is “ precious and selfish”?
Come on, Covid Cultists, be better.
These kind of insults are not winning your war.[/quote]
still waiting on a response of what data I've "cherry picked" @Sadsiblingatsea?

"Covid cultists" and then boohooing about insults, lol

The vast majority of people are happy to be vaccinated and your scare tactics are awful.

please explain how any medic who doesn’t toe the party line re vaccines can possibly have any “commercial interest in MMR misinformation”?

I don’t need to, because I didn’t suggest they did.

I did suggest that a doctor who sells single vaccines to people who have been sold a lie that MMR will damage their children has a commercial interest in perpetuating that lie.

Because that’s a fact.

An ethical person would put the truth above their commercial interest, but the fact that a commercial interest exists would be unchanged.

@Badyboo I’m not employing any “scare tactics”.
I’m simply promoting that crazy old fashioned thing called freedom of choice.
Do you work for the BBC?

[quote Sadsiblingatsea]@YarnOver So anyone who disagrees with you is “ precious and selfish”?
Come on, Covid Cultists, be better.
These kind of insults are not winning your war.[/quote]
Yep!

I don't care what your reasons are - unless there's a medical reason you can't have the vaccine - if you don't have it you're very selfish. It's people like you who are to blame for freedom pushed back, I hope you're satisfied.

@YarnOver

I can't have the vaccines. Any of them, for genuine medical reasons and I've been told by my Drs that I cannot. I have posted on here about it not too long ago as I feel absolutely terrible that I can't be vaccinated because if I don't, I'm risking other people.

People who don't have genuine reasons not to do it, are quite honestly just selfish. Because the people who actually cannot have it, those of us who would be actually risking our lives to do so, do need everyone around us to be vaccinated.

But you're too precious and selfish to do it so, thanks for that.

This. This is the reason that those who can, should.

Your misinformation has little to do with any freedom of choice, and your shite about if I work for the BBC demonstrates exactly which side has anything to do with any cult.