Us and them- the vaccine. So much pressure

[ToTheLetter01]

Before i begin, i am not an anti vaxxer. Me and my DS have had all our jabs and we also have annual flu jabs.
However i feel such hostility and pressure from people who have had their vaccine for me to have it. The reason i do not want it at this moment is just because its still in the experimental stage until 2023 and i would like to know more long term data.
This is my choice, its my body and everyone should have the choice. Choice to have the vaccine and choice to not. I do not shame nor ridicule anyone for having it or not.
However i have felt so much pressure from friends and others in the wider public, media, government.

I feel like the nation is becoming split between us and them. ( vaccinated and unvaccinated). With things becoming unfair for people. Eg. may be able to travel and not quarantine if had vaccines, care home workers may be forced to have the vaccine. Now i get the point of view of they have had it and may be more "safe". But how is the ok in a freedom and rights point of view. As i stated freedom to do what you want with your body.

I feel like this world is becoming some kind of dystopian world. I miss my old life, i took all the freedom for granted. Its true that you don't realise how good it was until it's gone.
I don't want people to be hostile to me because of my choice to wait for long term data on the vaccine. Half of me wants to lie to people i've had it so they will not be stand off towards me.

[quote Dustyboots]@speckledostrichegg

The doctor I've taken the most advice from over the years has been Richard Halvorsen.[/quote]
urm, this isn't really a response though is it? you are using complete nonsense to back up your claims that vaccines cause long term side effects like diabetes

you are quoting from a widely disproven paper from 1999 by Classen, who is the american equivalent of Andrew Wakefield

He is an anti-vaxxer who claims vaccines (as you have nicely quoted) cause diabetes, cancer and other auto immune disorders. He self-published a piece of rubbish claiming that the coronavirus vaccines cause prion disease, which is not based on any real evidence, and again, has been widely disproven.

What do you consider to be elderly? My late 40s, seemingly healthy neighbour ended up in a 6 week coma in December with it.. I guess you just never know, I had it and for me it was like a 2 day viral fever

I'm elderly then in your book - but I trust my immune system. As you say there's risk with and without vaccines. I'm taking the risk without option, for now.

You do have a choice it's true. And that choice is taken in a context like all choices. Ie there are consequences to our choices. In your case, your travel options may be limited if you're not vaccinated. The choice is, in short, vax and travel, no vax no travel

Just googled Richard Halversen. @Dustyboots Jesus.

I think it’s fair to say we are so far apart on our views I’m not even going to engage with you anymore. Though balancing his views with some from the science world may be a good idea? Good luck to you!

@Delatron

Just googled Richard Halversen. *@Dustyboots* Jesus.

I think it’s fair to say we are so far apart on our views I’m not even going to engage with you anymore. Though balancing his views with some from the science world may be a good idea? Good luck to you!

at least he's been surprisingly quiet since 2019

I am not going to waste my time replying to the posters above. I have been called an idiot, embarrassing and with no understanding, amongst other things. I am fact none of these things but a very highly educated person. This all illustrates just perfectly the point I was making and is the essence of many of the problems we are now facing.

Just remember that behind this user names are real life people. I am sure none of you would say any of this to my face. Have some decency and integrity and behave in the same way you would like to be treated.

@speckledostrichegg 🤣 So highly relevant in the current pandemic then!

The hostility and anger seems to be about resentment. Resentment that those vaccinated have been forced to do it - whilst others have chosen not to.

I don't understand this. We all had and do have a choice.

@speckledostrichegg But you are just cherry picking data to support your argument.
It’s not on to discredit medics who have had the courage to speak out against potentially dangerous medical treatments. They have nothing to gain from doing so.
I know medics who don’t want the vaccine, a GP and my dentist, but opposing the narrative is career suicide.
It’s dystopian and sinister that alternative viewpoints are shutdown with no discussion.

I'm another who thinks your body, your choice. However my body, my choice not to socialise with people who refuse the vaccine.

I also support vaccine passports for travel and large indoor events once all adults have had the option to take the vaccine. It come down to the old saying "with freedom comes responsibility "

I also resent people people who don't take vaccinations but expect others to so they are safe. I'm not saying anyone on this thread is like that but there are people in society who think this way

[quote Sadsiblingatsea]@speckledostrichegg But you are just cherry picking data to support your argument.
It’s not on to discredit medics who have had the courage to speak out against potentially dangerous medical treatments. They have nothing to gain from doing so.
I know medics who don’t want the vaccine, a GP and my dentist, but opposing the narrative is career suicide.
It’s dystopian and sinister that alternative viewpoints are shutdown with no discussion.[/quote]
Nope, cherry picking is not something I do after many many years as a scientist

Which of my posts are you actually referring to?

@loulouljh

I am not going to waste my time replying to the posters above. I have been called an idiot, embarrassing and with no understanding, amongst other things. I am fact none of these things but a very highly educated person. This all illustrates just perfectly the point I was making and is the essence of many of the problems we are now facing.

Just remember that behind this user names are real life people. I am sure none of you would say any of this to my face. Have some decency and integrity and behave in the same way you would like to be treated.

Louloujih what do you see as the way forward if not using vaccines?

Or do you have an age cut off / CEV stance

Even more confused as I don't think I've actually linked any papers or data to this thread

@Dustyboots

The hostility and anger seems to be about resentment. Resentment that those vaccinated have been forced to do it - whilst others have chosen not to.

I don't understand this. We all had and do have a choice.

But it seems to me those who don't want to take the vaccine are angry about potential restrictions that could be put in place for them. But they have made the choice to not have the vaccine 🤷🏻‍♀️

@Dustyboots

The hostility and anger seems to be about resentment. Resentment that those vaccinated have been forced to do it - whilst others have chosen not to.

I don't understand this. We all had and do have a choice.

I don’t feel forced. Relieved to have choice

But those spending time convincing others they’re not needed don’t seem to considered the impact of that in terms of hospitalisation then restrictions

Most people want to move on and be restriction free

@Dustyboots

The hostility and anger seems to be about resentment. Resentment that those vaccinated have been forced to do it - whilst others have chosen not to.

I don't understand this. We all had and do have a choice.

no, any hostility is generated by people posting complete crap and scientific misinformation to back up their views

your choice to take the vaccine, of course
but don't spread conspiracy theories and misinformation to justify it

@ToTheLetter01

Before i begin, i am not an anti vaxxer. Me and my DS have had all our jabs and we also have annual flu jabs. However i feel such hostility and pressure from people who have had their vaccine for me to have it. The reason i do not want it at this moment is just because its still in the experimental stage until 2023 and i would like to know more long term data. This is my choice, its my body and everyone should have the choice. Choice to have the vaccine and choice to not. I do not shame nor ridicule anyone for having it or not. However i have felt so much pressure from friends and others in the wider public, media, government.

I feel like the nation is becoming split between us and them. ( vaccinated and unvaccinated). With things becoming unfair for people. Eg. may be able to travel and not quarantine if had vaccines, care home workers may be forced to have the vaccine. Now i get the point of view of they have had it and may be more "safe". But how is the ok in a freedom and rights point of view. As i stated freedom to do what you want with your body.

I feel like this world is becoming some kind of dystopian world. I miss my old life, i took all the freedom for granted. Its true that you don't realise how good it was until it's gone.
I don't want people to be hostile to me because of my choice to wait for long term data on the vaccine. Half of me wants to lie to people i've had it so they will not be stand off towards me.

It's absolutely your choice and I understand your thinking.

But every choice has consequences and the current potential circumstances are not being able to participate in some activities at this time. So you need to weigh up whether you're happy with this until 2023 or whether participating is more important to you.

I was more than willing to be on the periphery, but due to being a shielder and cev, I've had to take medical advice.

Nobody is being forced to have a vaccine. I cried with relief when they announced they’d found a vaccine. I trust the amazing scientists and all the research and data I have read. (More than some Christian bloke on the internet).

@Biancadelrioisback

I am not against informed decision making at all and a right to say no btw. But you can't have your cake and eat it too

This. Also, these are unprecedented times, there’s a… pandemic. Things have changed. Yes it’s shit, I didn’t fancy the vaccine either but I hadn’t come up with a better alternative in my garden shed, and I’m not a scientist, so I took it.

*Dr Richard Halvorsen is the medical director of BabyJabs. Richard has worked as a GP in central London for over 20 years. He is concerned about the increasing number of vaccines given to babies, especially when these are for diseases that are either uncommon or rarely serious. As a GP, he offered his NHS patients mercury-free vaccines before these were available on the NHS, when he offered parents a choice between the MMR and single vaccines for many years.

He wanted to give all parents the opportunity to choose which vaccines to give their child, and when they should be given – a choice that is not available with the NHS schedule. This led to the formation of a dedicated children’s immunisation service, BabyJabs, in 2007.

Richard has written The Truth about Vaccines, which was first published in 2007. A much expanded and updated 4th edition was published in 2017 which is titled Vaccines: making the right choice for your child. He has talked and written widely on immunisation in the media.

He founded BabyJabs in response to parents’ concerns about vaccine safety and demands for a greater choice of vaccines for their children.*

Can you not engage with people who have different views @speckledostrichegg?

Open mindedness and willingness to hear other thoughts and opinions is an asset isn't it? You may be a doctor/scientist ... I don't know and don't care - but I wouldn't want to be in your care if you were. This is why I am sceptical and sometimes fearful of mainstream medicine. It is very much a closed minded shop - where professionals believe only what is printed in their text books. Why is it seen as shameful to look beyond and question - the basics that you are taught?

Scientists discover through questioning the "truths" that they were told and taught. This is how science has evolved. What was 'known' a hundred years ago is often no longer seen as fact anymore.

@Dustyboots

Do you understand that vaccinations don’t have long term side effects? If an adverse reaction is going to happen then it will do quite quickly.

This is as a dangerous lie. There is nothing factual about this.

That’s funny; my GP must be a liar then.

@Dustyboots

The hostility and anger seems to be about resentment. Resentment that those vaccinated have been forced to do it - whilst others have chosen not to.

I don't understand this. We all had and do have a choice.

Oh for fuck's sake Dusty, is that the best you can come up with? The vaccinated are jealous of the unvaccinated? Christ on a bike, love that's desperate.

Also, I didn’t feel forced to do it. An alternative to the virus spreading unchecked was given and more freedom as a result.

I’d also like to point out that no one has been forced to have the vaccine!

I’m sure I speak for many people on this thread when I say that I took it because I wanted to.

I know that scientists are very clever and know a lot more about viruses and vaccines than me, and therefore I trust them. I know vaccines are the only way we can get out of this.

130,000 people have died in this country thanks to this pandemic, and many more if you look at excess deaths. Without the vaccine we’d be in constant lockdown cycles forever. If we just let it run rampant it’s obvious to see that hospitals would be overwhelmed and everything would collapse.

I need to stop looking at this thread now it’s making me too annoyed!

I’m just glad that most people in this country have some common sense and have had the jab, so that we can enjoy more freedoms this summer.

I agree, OP. It does feel like us and them out there. I am not convinced that mandatory vaccination will stop with care workers.
It is terrifying and I don't want to live in this nightmare.