Us and them- the vaccine. So much pressure

[ToTheLetter01]

Before i begin, i am not an anti vaxxer. Me and my DS have had all our jabs and we also have annual flu jabs.
However i feel such hostility and pressure from people who have had their vaccine for me to have it. The reason i do not want it at this moment is just because its still in the experimental stage until 2023 and i would like to know more long term data.
This is my choice, its my body and everyone should have the choice. Choice to have the vaccine and choice to not. I do not shame nor ridicule anyone for having it or not.
However i have felt so much pressure from friends and others in the wider public, media, government.

I feel like the nation is becoming split between us and them. ( vaccinated and unvaccinated). With things becoming unfair for people. Eg. may be able to travel and not quarantine if had vaccines, care home workers may be forced to have the vaccine. Now i get the point of view of they have had it and may be more "safe". But how is the ok in a freedom and rights point of view. As i stated freedom to do what you want with your body.

I feel like this world is becoming some kind of dystopian world. I miss my old life, i took all the freedom for granted. Its true that you don't realise how good it was until it's gone.
I don't want people to be hostile to me because of my choice to wait for long term data on the vaccine. Half of me wants to lie to people i've had it so they will not be stand off towards me.

[quote Hornbill123456789]@bumbleymummy that’s just so highly disingenuous. I don’t believe that you simply don’t understand the impact of high numbers of Covid cases on hospitals - the knock on effect to other services it provides to young and old, and the long waiting lists for treatment.[/quote]
What’s disingenuous? That COVID isn’t as much of a risk to young people? That they are unlikely to end up in hospital? That’s why the JCVI prioritised the older/more vulnerable groups - they were the ones most likely to get seriously ill and put hospitals under pressure. Do you not agree with their findings?

The vitriol in the voices of some of you is further-pushing me into a corner of vaccine refusal I’m afraid.

That's fine. Just stay home and self isolate.

I didn’t say other vaccines were 100% effective. I was saying the opposite. That’s why I posted that link.

I agree @Dustyboots. It's really unfortunate. I've been really open and honest on this thread, as have others, but still accused of not caring about society.

@ollyollyoxenfree yes, I know vaccines aren’t 100% effective. Who is using it as their argument not to be vaccinated?

That's fine. Just stay home and self isolate

I’m not going to do that.

@bumbleymummy
Say an 83 year old catches Covid. We live in a humane society so that 83 year old needs and fully deserves hospital care and emergency treatment. If they sadly die, they deserve to end their life as humanely as possible.
They are taken to hospital as an emergency. They need manpower, resources, all restrictions in place to provide care.

When a great many 83 year olds are entering hospital needing hospital care, doctors, surgeons, staff are pulled away from other services to cope with the cases that are presenting as an emergency.
In my Mums case, her cancer surgeon was pulled away to treat Covid patients - so her operation waiting lists grew longer - and my mum had to wait months to finally get her operation. Because she was less urgent than someone dying of Covid.
Hospitals are overwhelmed if Covid cases spiral out of control. It impacts ALL services - for young and old.
But I can’t believe you don’t know this??
Hospitals are currently playing catch up with waiting lists, we don’t know how well the vaccine will work against the delta variant - so even a small increase in Covid hospitalisations could effect other services.

@Dustyboots

I didn’t say other vaccines were 100% effective. I was saying the opposite. That’s why I posted that link.

you can see why your post implies the opposite?

"the fact that it doesn't do this in 100% of cases is not a reason to not get vaccinated, and is not common in other vaccines"

It is common in other vaccines.

I thought you meant that other vaccines protected 100% unlike Covid vaccines when you said ‘is not common in other vaccines’

Sorry.

@Dustyboots

I thought you meant that other vaccines protected 100% unlike Covid vaccines when you said ‘is not common in other vaccines’

Sorry.

gotcha, a rare consensus agreement between the two of us

@Wimpund21

I've decided not to have it yet but the vitriol from many who are vaccinated has led me to keep quiet on the subject. I have no wish to enter debates about my choice in real life or be constantly hounded by some of the more 'militant' people I know.

I avoided the conversation within my work team for as long as possible. Last week unfortunately I could avoid it no longer and I smiled and said of course I'd had it, I had second dose last week.

That now what I'll tell anyone who asks in rl. It's a shame it's necessary tbh.

It's not necessary to lie. It's a decision you made. It's a shame that you don't have the courage of your convictions.

[quote Hornbill123456789]@bumbleymummy
Say an 83 year old catches Covid. We live in a humane society so that 83 year old needs and fully deserves hospital care and emergency treatment. If they sadly die, they deserve to end their life as humanely as possible.
They are taken to hospital as an emergency. They need manpower, resources, all restrictions in place to provide care.

When a great many 83 year olds are entering hospital needing hospital care, doctors, surgeons, staff are pulled away from other services to cope with the cases that are presenting as an emergency.
In my Mums case, her cancer surgeon was pulled away to treat Covid patients - so her operation waiting lists grew longer - and my mum had to wait months to finally get her operation. Because she was less urgent than someone dying of Covid.
Hospitals are overwhelmed if Covid cases spiral out of control. It impacts ALL services - for young and old.
But I can’t believe you don’t know this??
Hospitals are currently playing catch up with waiting lists, we don’t know how well the vaccine will work against the delta variant - so even a small increase in Covid hospitalisations could effect other services.[/quote]
I really don't know what you think I don't know or why you think it requires such a lengthy post about hypothetical 83 yr olds.

We do know how well the vaccine works against the delta variant -it's been all over the news for the past two weeks. We also know that young people are very unlikely to end up in hospital so my original point stands - or do you actually not agree with the JCVI's assessment on the most at-risk groups? You'd be better off taking it up with them, if so.

Actually think if a side effect of the vaccine was ‘to make you feel high’, ‘to give you a sun tan’ - or ‘make you lose a bit of weight’ - many of the refusers would probably take it as they can suddenly see some immediate personal benefit.

@bumbleymummy no - we don’t!! They are monitoring the situation. Please link me to a news article that says ‘we know the vaccine is working fine and the hospitalisations will be completely manageable over the next few weeks”.

@Hornbill123456789

www.astrazeneca.com/media-centre/press-releases/2021/covid-19-vaccine-astrazeneca-effective-against-delta-indian-variant.html

www.gov.uk/government/news/vaccines-highly-effective-against-hospitalisation-from-delta-variant

@bumbleymummy no - you actually don’t understand do you. It’s about hospitals being able to cope. They can’t cope with a huge increase in cases. And the knock on effect is inadequate cancer care, maternity care, mental health care etc effecting young AND old. As I said before my Mums cancer surgeon was pulled away from treating cancer patients to treat Covid patients.

Hospitals can cope perfectly fine as long as the cases don't lead to hospitalisations. And they shouldn't lead to hospitalisations because the majority of people who are most likely to be hospitalised (According to the jcvi) have been double jabbed, which, as you can see from the links above, provides 'highly effective protection against hospitalisation'.

@Hornbill123456789

And just to remind you, your original point was that there is a 'high risk from covid.' and I pointed out that covid isn't 'high risk' to young, healthy people. I'm not really sure why you're trying to argue against that.

@bumbleymummy you know that article is referring to both doses - and quite a significant number of people have not had both doses/refused the vaccine. So no - it’s not possible to say yet how well hospitals can cope.

And a week or so ago 30% of the 42 deaths from delta variant were double vaccinated people.

And just to remind you, your original point was that there is a 'high risk from covid.' and I pointed out that covid isn't 'high risk' to young, healthy people. I'm not really sure why you're trying to argue against that

Neither is rubella I don't think.

I’ll say it again! Yes it does impact the young because of the knock on effect on ALL health services when a hospital is overwhelmed.

I am not elderly. Because of Covid and the clogged hospitals I had to wait 8 months for surgery for suspected ovarian cancer. I was petrified it would be too late.

Thankfully I had a benign tumour.

We need to do what we can, including getting vaccinated, so our health care systems aren't overwhelmed. Especially in countries like Canada and the UK where we have public health care.

The media is too happy to play up the rare problems and scare people. You don't see the news about how many people are successfully vaccinated, and literally saving lives.

Our cleaner, who has been with us since the 1980s, is petrified of the vaccination. She is very much a member if our family and we love her. Every week we try to reassure her, but no dice. She tells us about someone in her home country who went blind etc etc. It is unfortunate for sure and we hope she comes around. She was a refugee and lacks a strong education, so it is hard for her to sort the information out.

Please get the vaccine if you can. For the sake of all of us, including the kids who just want normal life back.

and I pointed out that covid isn't 'high risk' to young, healthy people. I'm not really sure why you're trying to argue against that.

I think the point you are missing is that they can still transmit the virus. We know that the vaccine, like every other vaccine ever developed, is not 100% effective. The vaccination programme is about reducing the risk for everyone.

There are countless threads on mumsnet from posters who haven't been able to see their GP because of the pandemic. There are tens of thousands of students who are having a miserable time who have never met their coursemates and are learning online stuck in a room or flat in halls. Those are just two of many examples of how people's lives have been affected.

We need to move out of this and back to some semblance of normality, not just for physical health, but for mental health.

@Hornbill123456789

Yes, I know that it refers to both doses - I'm the one who linked to it. Again, the majority of people most likely to end up in hospital i.e. the top 9 groups identified by the JCVI, have had both doses.

Hospitalisations are lower than what we were predicted to be at a few weeks ago.

And the deaths in the double vaccinated were apparently in patients with significant co-morbidities. (Again, in the news just a few days ago) The vaccine isn't the Elixir of Life, elderly/very sick people are still going to die.