Us and them- the vaccine. So much pressure

[ToTheLetter01]

Before i begin, i am not an anti vaxxer. Me and my DS have had all our jabs and we also have annual flu jabs.
However i feel such hostility and pressure from people who have had their vaccine for me to have it. The reason i do not want it at this moment is just because its still in the experimental stage until 2023 and i would like to know more long term data.
This is my choice, its my body and everyone should have the choice. Choice to have the vaccine and choice to not. I do not shame nor ridicule anyone for having it or not.
However i have felt so much pressure from friends and others in the wider public, media, government.

I feel like the nation is becoming split between us and them. ( vaccinated and unvaccinated). With things becoming unfair for people. Eg. may be able to travel and not quarantine if had vaccines, care home workers may be forced to have the vaccine. Now i get the point of view of they have had it and may be more "safe". But how is the ok in a freedom and rights point of view. As i stated freedom to do what you want with your body.

I feel like this world is becoming some kind of dystopian world. I miss my old life, i took all the freedom for granted. Its true that you don't realise how good it was until it's gone.
I don't want people to be hostile to me because of my choice to wait for long term data on the vaccine. Half of me wants to lie to people i've had it so they will not be stand off towards me.

@DayKay

The immune response is stronger post vaccine, and lasts longer.

@DayKay

Why isn’t having had covid, and so natural antibodies, counted the same as having had the vaccine, which gets the body to create antibodies? There is some research now that says they don’t need the vaccination. I think that should be taken into account too.

It is

Vaccine passports will show ‘natural immunity’ for people who have had Covid

Immunity certificates to last for six months and appear as a green badge on the NHS app under new trial

www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2021/06/15/people-have-had-covid-will-have-natural-immunity-included-vaccine/

[quote bumbleymummy]@riveted1 isn’t that what you were saying? That there was no proven link between the mmr and autism?

@ChequerBoard
The impact of not having a flu vaccine is completely different to not having a Covid vaccine.

For younger, healthy people, it isn’t. They are being encouraged to get it to ‘protect the vulnerable’.[/quote]
No, we need all adults to be vaccinated to create the background immunity that we are lacking because of the novel nature of covid.

That isn't required with flu because it is endemic, has been circulating forever and a day, and there is already base level immunity throughout the population as a result of how long it's been around.

In spite of this we give the flu vaccine to all school children because they spread the flu (rather than to protect them particularly).

[quote Chillychangchoo]@DayKay

The immune response is stronger post vaccine, and lasts longer.[/quote]
We don’t know how long vaccine immunity lasts yet. There are multiple studies shoring natural immunity lasts 8+ months in the majority of people.

Yes - interesting story in the Times today about how hard it is to plan for this year’s flu season because distancing and lockdowns have suppressed it, we didn’t all get the booster exposure in winter 20/21 that we usually would, and there are many fewer clues from the Southern Hemisphere on what strains might be dominant this winter. But it underlined the role of background partial immunity.

Children are also at risk of complications from flu though, moreso than young people/adults.

We do not need all adults to be vaccinated. Natural infection also confers immunity and, for the majority of people(particularly young people), this is a mild illness.

Sorry, last post to @Sunshinegirl82

OP, that is your choice and I would defend your right to have that choice, but we would all still be locked up with everything closed (not to mention the death rate) if it wasn't for other people making a different choice. In an ideal world nobody would have to take any vaccine, none of us "wanted" to have it, but without the majority accepting any risk to themselves we would not be able to move on. You can't blame people for getting frustrated with your decision.

Actually, people who were at high risk from covid probably wanted to be vaccinated. There are also plenty ‘worried well’ who want to be vaccinated even though they’re very low risk.

@RampantIvy

www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/covid-third-wave-uk-delta-variant-b941508.html

It's no coincidence that the rise in cases has been driven by those who haven't had the vaccine, or that most of the hospital admissions needing treatments are people who haven't been vaccinated.

Exactly. And their lack of social responsibility is taking up resources in the NHS which can be used elsewhere.

What annoys me as much as anything else is that they're totally without compunction.

@ilovesooty how do you know why they haven’t been vaccinated? Perhaps they haven’t been offered it yet or they fall into that group of ‘vulnerable people who can’t be vaccinated’ .

We do not need all adults to be vaccinated. Natural infection also confers immunity and, for the majority of people(particularly young people), this is a mild illness

No, but with delta (fuck you Boris Johnson for doing this to us) we need pretty much all adults to have immunity. Unfortunately we don’t know how much of the unvaccinated population has immunity and we’re going to have to wait while it works it way through them (and hope none is host to a vaccine-evading mutant while they’re acquiring their immunity.)

[quote bumbleymummy]@ilovesooty how do you know why they haven’t been vaccinated? Perhaps they haven’t been offered it yet or they fall into that group of ‘vulnerable people who can’t be vaccinated’ .[/quote]
My remarks of course refer to people who have actively refused the vaccine. I would have thought my previous posts had repeatedly made that clear.

It's the vaccine refusers I despise.

Why are you even telling people? No ones business! Your body your choice. Tell them to fuck off

@JassyRadlett

We do not need all adults to be vaccinated. Natural infection also confers immunity and, for the majority of people(particularly young people), this is a mild illness

No, but with delta (fuck you Boris Johnson for doing this to us) we need pretty much all adults to have immunity. Unfortunately we don’t know how much of the unvaccinated population has immunity and we’re going to have to wait while it works it way through them (and hope none is host to a vaccine-evading mutant while they’re acquiring their immunity.)

Didn’t the recent ons survey show that over 80% have antibodies (from vaccination/natural infection)?

In some ways I feel better disposed to anti- vaxxers, who truly believe that most or all people shouldn't get it, than those who do believe in vaccines but want to wait - which really just means to free-ride on everyone else being vaccinated.

@wasthataburp

Why are you even telling people? No ones business! Your body your choice. Tell them to fuck off

It might increasingly become other people's business if vaccine refusers aren't able to access the same facilities as the vaccinated eg jobs and travel.

In any case vaccine refusers are quite often very vocal anyway. If they choose to be vocal about their refusal others can choose to limit their interactions with them.

@ilovesooty Do you feel the same about obese people and smokers taking up NHS resources and taking no ‘social responsibility’?

At no point in history has anyone had absolute bodily autonomy with no consequences.

If you wanted to travel to many countries, you had to have had a yellow fever vaccine (yes, their laws, not ours, but we have not had any potentially deadly circulating diseases for a long time until COVID).

This is a trade off of freedoms. Your bodily autonomy vs a vulnerable person’s safety. Whose right is paramount?

So, the compromise is vaccines are not mandatory but, equally, the admission of an unvaccinated person into a country or event is also not mandatory.

If they choose to be vocal about their refusal others can choose to limit their interactions with them.

Yes, because unvaccinated people are such a risk to vaccinated people. Oh wait

Your bodily autonomy vs a vulnerable person’s safety. Whose right is paramount?

Ummmm... I’m pretty sure it’s bodily autonomy. Otherwise we’d be whipping out healthy people’s organs/blood to give to others without consent.

[quote bumbleymummy]@ilovesooty how do you know why they haven’t been vaccinated? Perhaps they haven’t been offered it yet or they fall into that group of ‘vulnerable people who can’t be vaccinated’ .[/quote]
I agree, in the case of the younger ones, that they may not have been offered the vaccine yet.

DD is 20, and hadn't yet been offered it. She will get the vaccine when the opportunity arises though. As a biomedical sciences student she fully understands how vaccines work, in particular the covid vaccines, and the implications of not having the vaccine.

[quote bumbleymummy]@ilovesooty Do you feel the same about obese people and smokers taking up NHS resources and taking no ‘social responsibility’?[/quote]
No. They don't infect or affect other people in the same way. In any case there are many reasons for obesity and smoking is an addiction and funded by taxes smokers pay.

You're just trying to find ways to justify the utter selfishness of vaccine refusal. Refusers and hesitants are freeloading and antisocial as far as I'm concerned.

@bumbleymummy

If they choose to be vocal about their refusal others can choose to limit their interactions with them.

Yes, because unvaccinated people are such a risk to vaccinated people. Oh wait

Regardless of the actual risk which is still increased I don't want to have anything to do with unvaccinated refusers.

@ilovesooty I don’t need to justify my decision at all and I really don’t give a crap about your opinion of me . I’m just highlighting all your double standards. People using up nhs resources on obesity/smoking related conditions take away from other parts of the nhs so of course they impact others.