Us and them- the vaccine. So much pressure

[ToTheLetter01]

Before i begin, i am not an anti vaxxer. Me and my DS have had all our jabs and we also have annual flu jabs.
However i feel such hostility and pressure from people who have had their vaccine for me to have it. The reason i do not want it at this moment is just because its still in the experimental stage until 2023 and i would like to know more long term data.
This is my choice, its my body and everyone should have the choice. Choice to have the vaccine and choice to not. I do not shame nor ridicule anyone for having it or not.
However i have felt so much pressure from friends and others in the wider public, media, government.

I feel like the nation is becoming split between us and them. ( vaccinated and unvaccinated). With things becoming unfair for people. Eg. may be able to travel and not quarantine if had vaccines, care home workers may be forced to have the vaccine. Now i get the point of view of they have had it and may be more "safe". But how is the ok in a freedom and rights point of view. As i stated freedom to do what you want with your body.

I feel like this world is becoming some kind of dystopian world. I miss my old life, i took all the freedom for granted. Its true that you don't realise how good it was until it's gone.
I don't want people to be hostile to me because of my choice to wait for long term data on the vaccine. Half of me wants to lie to people i've had it so they will not be stand off towards me.

As for possible vaccine related restrictions. You surely just factor that into your decision. Most older people did just that back in the winter. Some had the vaccine because they were worried about the virus. Others because they realised restrictions not having it could happen

[quote TruelyonelastSchlep]@ilovesooty I am a vaccine cheerleader. Just saying why if people have chosen not to vaccinate are they bothering to make a fuss. Then grumble if people tell them they are wrong. Make a decision and move on. Life is to short. Some of the vaccine refusers moan way to much and hang out on vaccine threads. Seems very self harming if they take offense easily etc[/quote]
Sorry - I should have said 'them' rather than 'you' .

@XenoBitch

Goodness me you do try hard to twist things.

It's called an analogy. To help people who haven't understood what I'm saying to understand.

@ilovesooty

In my view it's perfectly acceptable for those refusing the vaccine and not contributing to the effort to get our freedoms back to have their own freedoms restricted.

We all contributed to it by complying with the restrictions for the last year. The most vulnerable groups are (mainly) vaccinated. Why should we have to ‘buy’ our freedoms back by taking a vaccine we don’t need if we’re low risk?

How can you equate cataracts with the government taking away freedoms?

@XenoBitch I think the framing of this is problematic

We're trying to get control over a pandemic which means we need to stop people transmitting it to others. One way of doing this is vaccination, as it drastically reduces the chances of you passing it on. Some people aren't comfortable with being vaccinated, and so in that case it's reasonable to ask for other measures instead, such as negative tests before travelling or attending large events, no?

BJ has repeatedly stated (for what it's worth) that negative tests, proof of vaccination, or a positive antibody result could be used domestically

of course we have no control over what restrictions other countries might require

@Cindy974

The vaccine fanatics are the real conspiracy theorists. They don’t believe in the immune system.

Lol

We all contributed to it by complying with the restrictions for the last year. The most vulnerable groups are (mainly) vaccinated. Why should we have to ‘buy’ our freedoms back by taking a vaccine we don’t need if we’re low risk?

@bumbleymummy

you often post this and get the same reply from multiple posters

it's not just about whether an individual is low risk, it's about supressing coronavirus and preventing it for exponentially spreading through the population

@motogogo

To be honest I have no issue with people not wanting to be vaccinated but they should be banned from going to public places if they have been invited to be vaccinated eg over 30's and refuse, and in a month all unvaccinated because they are driving the new variant

A single AZ vaccine is only ~30% effective against the delta strain. Unvaccinated people aren’t the only ones affected.

It's not a question of what you think you need or your perceived low risk. Vaccine refusers are driving new variants, contributing to increased transmission and putting the vulnerable who can't be vaccinated at increased risk. I don't see why they shouldn't experience restrictions and hopefully their continued refusal will become increasingly socially unacceptable.

It's a very bizarre way of looking at things. It's not 'being punished for not getting the vaccine' but that there may be some benefits for those who have taken the vaccine eg. countries may decide, understandably, that they don't want unvaccinated people coming in. That is their right.

How would you feel about us inviting a load of unvaccinated people into the UK?

We were all stuck between a rock and a hard place, many who have had the vaccine will not have particularly wanted to but have decided to do it for the benefits it would have for them and for society at a whole. To then say oh they're not allowed to benefit because people who didn't take the vaccine might feel they were being punished is more than a bit rich.

Choices have consequences - there may turn out to be some perks of being vaccinated not as a reward but as the result of being less of a risk for transmission ergo some freedoms that come with that.

I'm really hoping the mind control was a joke?

I see those who have chosen not to vaccinate as irresponsible. I believe that we should have the vaccine, partly to protect those that can't. I'm all for vaccine passports.

I work in health care. I have to have certain jabs to do my job. This is no different.

I don't have much time for those who are waiting, with various excuses. If you have chosen not to have the vaccine then you are choosing to delay your normal life.

I completely agree with the principle of it being your choice and not knowing the science of having the vaccine.

I would temper that by also saying we also don't know the long term effects of not having the vaccine and having covid. That could be severe covid and the long term effect or it could be less severe but debilitating long covid.

My point is that the decision not to have the vaccine isn't a neutral one. It is also an active choice which could also have long term health effects which we don't fully know and understand.

As it goes I've just read a sobering analysis of the stats on covid if you are in your 30s.

The risk of developing cerebral venous thrombosis after AZ for 30 - 39 year olds is 1.5 per 100,000. But now the risk of ICU admission with Covid for unvaccinated people in their thirties has more than doubled to 1.9 per 100,000 (analysis by the Financial Times) meaning being unvaccinated is now riskier than taking the AstraZeneca jab for the age group. The point being that the delay caused by Pfizer shortages could be exposing 30 - 39 year olds to more risk than if they just had AZ immediately as the Delta variant is a game changer.

Basically what you need to look at is not the risks of the vaccine but the risks of the vaccine versus the risks of having covid versus the chances of catching covid.

You can't just compare the risks of having the vaccine versus a scenario pre-covid where the complications of covid don't exist. It isn't reality.

So by all means make a decision, but make sure you are making an informed decision based on proper data rather than bollocks off social media and non real world comparison.

Im the same OP, the vaccine risks statistically speaking ate higher than the risks of covid19. Im sitting it out for a while. If I had been in a high risk group I'd have had the vaccine.

@bumbleymummy that’s 30% protection against infection. And it’s the same for Pfizer too.

However, have you seen that a single dose cuts the risk of hospitalisation by 75% for both vaccines? For both delta and alpha.

@speckledostrichegg

We all contributed to it by complying with the restrictions for the last year. The most vulnerable groups are (mainly) vaccinated. Why should we have to ‘buy’ our freedoms back by taking a vaccine we don’t need if we’re low risk?

@bumbleymummy

you often post this and get the same reply from multiple posters

it's not just about whether an individual is low risk, it's about supressing coronavirus and preventing it for exponentially spreading through the population

Yeah, and I’ve replied to that type of response several times too but people keep saying it.

It’s not going to exponentially spread through a population where around 80% of people have antibodies from vaccination or previous infection. If it does then the vaccines aren’t doing their job anyway so why force them on to people who don’t want them?

@ilovesooty

It's not a question of what you think you need or your perceived low risk. Vaccine refusers are driving new variants, contributing to increased transmission and putting the vulnerable who can't be vaccinated at increased risk. I don't see why they shouldn't experience restrictions and hopefully their continued refusal will become increasingly socially unacceptable.

‘Socially unacceptable’ 🙄 Honestly, do you actually hear yourself? I can’t wait to look back on these types of comments in a few years. I don’t think they’re going to age well.

@LadyLolaRuben how on Earth are the risks of the vaccine higher than the risk of covid? That’s completely false.

How on Earth do you expect life to get back to normal if we didn’t have these life savings vaccines?

Not much point in trying to debate with people who expect to have freedom without exercising any social responsibility. As I said, hopefully their refusal will become increasingly inconvenient for them and they'll find that their stance will be regarded as increasingly socially unacceptable. increasingly

@LadyLolaRuben

Im the same OP, the vaccine risks statistically speaking ate higher than the risks of covid19. Im sitting it out for a while. If I had been in a high risk group I'd have had the vaccine.

I do get what you mean. However I hope you have factored in the possibility of covid cases rising quickly. Compared the time it may take you to get an appointment, gap between doses and couple of weeks for it to work. That stands for whatever vaccine you have really.

My eldest children in their 20s have chosen to get vaccinated on this calculation. One works with the general public so is particularly exposed as well.

@LadyLolaRuben

Im the same OP, the vaccine risks statistically speaking ate higher than the risks of covid19. Im sitting it out for a while. If I had been in a high risk group I'd have had the vaccine.

See, is this kind of dangerous bollocks that really riles me.

I know people really struggle to understand probability and risk analysis but there is not being able to understand it and then there is making up claptrap on the back of that ignorance....

Yes @bumbleymummy . I do hear myself. And I stand by what I said.

Basically what you need to look at is not the risks of the vaccine but the risks of the vaccine versus the risks of having covid versus the chances of catching covid.

But if you’re happy to accept a very small risk of covid then why add the risk of a vaccine into the mix? Technically the flu vaccine is probably lower risk than the flu but I don’t rush out to get it every year because I’m happy enough to take my chances with flu. Flu could also be dangerous for people who can’t be vaccinated against it but we don’t ever get anything like the current pressure/guilt trip over that.

@ilovesooty good to know. I’ll keep an eye out for your name in a few years - if you haven’t decided to change it by then.

I agree with @ilovesooty. I think if you choose not to be vaccinated (rather than cannot for medical reasons) then you choose a life of isolation. Why should the unvaccinated be allowed to go to public places, restaurants, pubs etc? Why put the rest of us at risk? Even with 2 vaccinations, we can still contract COVID albeit in a milder form from a carrier and who is going to be that carrier? The great unvaccinated.

@bumbleymummy

Did you know you don't live in isolation? I want as many people to take it as possible so we can get back to normal for our children who are missing so much.

Reread your post and see how self absorbed you sound.