Us and them- the vaccine. So much pressure

[ToTheLetter01]

Before i begin, i am not an anti vaxxer. Me and my DS have had all our jabs and we also have annual flu jabs.
However i feel such hostility and pressure from people who have had their vaccine for me to have it. The reason i do not want it at this moment is just because its still in the experimental stage until 2023 and i would like to know more long term data.
This is my choice, its my body and everyone should have the choice. Choice to have the vaccine and choice to not. I do not shame nor ridicule anyone for having it or not.
However i have felt so much pressure from friends and others in the wider public, media, government.

I feel like the nation is becoming split between us and them. ( vaccinated and unvaccinated). With things becoming unfair for people. Eg. may be able to travel and not quarantine if had vaccines, care home workers may be forced to have the vaccine. Now i get the point of view of they have had it and may be more "safe". But how is the ok in a freedom and rights point of view. As i stated freedom to do what you want with your body.

I feel like this world is becoming some kind of dystopian world. I miss my old life, i took all the freedom for granted. Its true that you don't realise how good it was until it's gone.
I don't want people to be hostile to me because of my choice to wait for long term data on the vaccine. Half of me wants to lie to people i've had it so they will not be stand off towards me.

[quote bumbleymummy]@ilovesooty good to know. I’ll keep an eye out for your name in a few years - if you haven’t decided to change it by then.[/quote]
I haven't changed it in all the years I've been on the site so I'm not likely to do so now.

@Unreasonabubble

I agree with *@ilovesooty*. I think if you choose not to be vaccinated (rather than cannot for medical reasons) then you choose a life of isolation. Why should the unvaccinated be allowed to go to public places, restaurants, pubs etc? Why put the rest of us at risk? Even with 2 vaccinations, we can still contract COVID albeit in a milder form from a carrier and who is going to be that carrier? The great unvaccinated.

Right... so unvaccinated people are putting vaccinated people at risk? What’s the point of your vaccine then? 🙄

@Sadsiblingatsea

In a province in Pakistan the authorities say they are going to switch off the SIM cards of those who refuse to be vaxxed as the take up ( unsurprisingly) has been so low. In Italy, a doctor and 2 nurses are being sued after someone died soon after being jabbed. Why are the jab zealots burying their heads in the sand? And if they are jabbed, surely they are protected ( in their eyes, at least)?

Could you provide a link about the Italians please? Sued for what?

[quote frysturkishdelight]@bumbleymummy

Did you know you don't live in isolation? I want as many people to take it as possible so we can get back to normal for our children who are missing so much.

Reread your post and see how self absorbed you sound. [/quote]
We are perfectly able to ‘get back to normal’ without vaccinating younger, low risk people. They weren’t the ones putting pressure on the nhs. For the majority of people this is a mild illness.

@bumbleymummy - If the majority of us are vaccinated, we cannot pass COVID on to others. If someone is unvaccinated, they can contract COVID and still give it to us. If we are all vaccinated, (where medically possible) it significantly reduces the threat of the virus.

@bumbleymummy the vaccine isn't a guarantee you won't catch it but the chances are increased if unvaccinated people continue to spread it without restriction. And the wilfully unvaccinated are putting vulnerable people who can't be vaccinated at risk.

@TheHoneyBadger

It's a very bizarre way of looking at things. It's not 'being punished for not getting the vaccine' but that there may be some benefits for those who have taken the vaccine eg. countries may decide, understandably, that they don't want unvaccinated people coming in. That is their right.

How would you feel about us inviting a load of unvaccinated people into the UK?

We were all stuck between a rock and a hard place, many who have had the vaccine will not have particularly wanted to but have decided to do it for the benefits it would have for them and for society at a whole. To then say oh they're not allowed to benefit because people who didn't take the vaccine might feel they were being punished is more than a bit rich.

Choices have consequences - there may turn out to be some perks of being vaccinated not as a reward but as the result of being less of a risk for transmission ergo some freedoms that come with that.

I'm really hoping the mind control was a joke?

The thing is, being able to access everyday services and venues isn't a "benefit", it's often a necessity. It's not an advantage given to people who are vaccinated, but a freedom taken from people who aren't. It could start with restaurants and end with universities (as is already happening in the states.) What would you say to a 21 year-old who had put three years of hard work into their degree but couldn't attend their exams without a vaccine, which they didn't want to get because they were scared of the myocarditis risk, however small it might be?

You say you want your old life back but you're not prepared to do the only thing that will mean you get your old life back because of the risk.

You then get upset that other people who took the risk are getting their old lives back.

You seem to want other people to take a risk you're not prepared to take so that you can get your life back.

I want my old life back so I've taken the risk.

[quote Unreasonabubble]@bumbleymummy - If the majority of us are vaccinated, we cannot pass COVID on to others. If someone is unvaccinated, they can contract COVID and still give it to us. If we are all vaccinated, (where medically possible) it significantly reduces the threat of the virus.[/quote]
Actually vaccinated people can contract and transmit covid - it’s a reduction of risk, not elimination of it. And unvaccinated people (which was all of us until about 6 months ago) may already be immune after infection. If you aren’t protected by your vaccine then technically you’re also able to put people at risk so perhaps you shouldn’t be allowed out in public places either?

The threat of the virus has already been reduced because we’ve (mostly) vaccinated the groups most likely to end up in hospital, putting strain on the nhs.

[quote ilovesooty]@bumbleymummy the vaccine isn't a guarantee you won't catch it but the chances are increased if unvaccinated people continue to spread it without restriction. And the wilfully unvaccinated are putting vulnerable people who can't be vaccinated at risk.[/quote]
No more than they’re put at risk of flu/common cold etc. every year but we don’t try to guilt people into the flu vaccine to protect them every year.

Gosh three posts in and the pile on starts.
Can’t believe the vitriol.
So many people can’t have or shouldn’t have had the vaccine.
Do they not matter

Those that might be or have been damaged for life.

Obviously not

You say you want your old life back but you're not prepared to do the only thing that will mean you get your old life back because of the risk.

Wow. It’s really scary that people think they have to have the vaccine to get their life back.

Covid is not the same as flu or the common cold. FWIW I think in many settings having a flu vaccine is also a responsible thing to do.

@bumbleymummy

Basically what you need to look at is not the risks of the vaccine but the risks of the vaccine versus the risks of having covid versus the chances of catching covid.

But if you’re happy to accept a very small risk of covid then why add the risk of a vaccine into the mix? Technically the flu vaccine is probably lower risk than the flu but I don’t rush out to get it every year because I’m happy enough to take my chances with flu. Flu could also be dangerous for people who can’t be vaccinated against it but we don’t ever get anything like the current pressure/guilt trip over that.

You aren't comparing the two correctly.

Its the risk of having covid (which may have severe complications long term which may include everything from an ICU admission and subsequent problems to long covid and both the short term and long term complications which we don't know)

v

The risk of a vaccine and the known short term complications and the unknown longer term problems which we may later find out.

Since we know that covid isn't going away and that it will be around for so years to come, its about your long term chances of not being exposed and catching covid - its not about the rate per 100,000 at present which is your risk here. Its the ongoing medium to long term risk of getting covid at some point in the future (this is where you start to get some compound maths which are messy and not well understand). We also know this risk isn't even amongst the population - with areas/communities with lower vaccine up take being more vulnerable because you have more unvaccined people mixing with each other.

The net result is you get pockets geographically where the risk of getting covid is disproportionately high. And these tend to be communities where underlying health is poorer (and thus more at risk of covid) to begin with too, further compounding the issue). To put it in other terms - if you are in a better off area, where vaccine update is higher and health is generally better you are going to be better protected on multiple levels than someone living in a poorer area.

Just to stress, we aren't talking about the chance of you having covid right now (the rate per 100,000) this is the chance of you getting covid between now and an indeterminate date in the future (maybe tomorrow, maybe next June, maybe 3 years in the future).

@bumbleymummy

You say you want your old life back but you're not prepared to do the only thing that will mean you get your old life back because of the risk.

Wow. It’s really scary that people think they have to have the vaccine to get their life back.

TBH, I don't think life as we had pre-covid is happening for anyone for 5 years. Covid is going to be an ongoing concern for sometime even if some normality does return.

@shewalkslikerihanna people who can't have the vaccine matter a great deal. I have no time for the vaccine refusers who don't care about putting those people at risk.

In Italy, a doctor and 2 nurses are being sued after someone died soon after being jabbed.

I thought this case had been dropped.

@ilovesooty

Covid is not the same as flu or the common cold. FWIW I think in many settings having a flu vaccine is also a responsible thing to do.

Actually, for immunocompromised people, they are. They can still get seriously ill/die from colds/flu. And we’re not only talking about ‘certain settings’. Your argument isn’t that people in ‘certain settings’ should have the covid vaccine to protect the vulnerable who can’t be vaccinated, it’s that everyone needs to be vaccinated to protect them. But you don’t hold people to the same standards with the flu vaccine.

@bumbleymummy

You say you want your old life back but you're not prepared to do the only thing that will mean you get your old life back because of the risk.

Wow. It’s really scary that people think they have to have the vaccine to get their life back.

This is very true! I've been double vaccinated for a while now, I have no where near the resemblance of normal life as before

@RedToothBrush yes, and I’m happy with that risk. I have never been overly worried about COVID. I do much riskier things on a daily basis that could also have significant long term consequences for my health.

Wow. It’s really scary that people think they have to have the vaccine to get their life back.

This

*Actually vaccinated people can contract and transmit covid - it’s a reduction of risk, not elimination of it. And unvaccinated people (which was all of us until about 6 months ago) may already be immune after infection. If you aren’t protected by your vaccine then technically you’re also able to put people at risk so perhaps you shouldn’t be allowed out in public places either?

The threat of the virus has already been reduced because we’ve (mostly) vaccinated the groups most likely to end up in hospital, putting strain on the nhs.*

And very much this. How is it that people who use their brains independently/dexterously are said to be stupid? These posts are far from that.

I was/am on the fence. Have always been. Never been an antivaxxer - just a questioner. But posts such as the ones I've pasted here convince me so so much more than the hammering, blind, blinkered battering posts of those who hate questioning/follow like sheep.

[quote bumbleymummy]@RedToothBrush yes, and I’m happy with that risk. I have never been overly worried about COVID. I do much riskier things on a daily basis that could also have significant long term consequences for my health.[/quote]
again, it's not about individual risk

the majority of under 50s aren't getting vaccinated because they're "overly worried about COVID"

It's the implications of an uncontrolled pandemic, rather than the personal protection you get from vaccination

[quote bumbleymummy]@RedToothBrush yes, and I’m happy with that risk. I have never been overly worried about COVID. I do much riskier things on a daily basis that could also have significant long term consequences for my health.[/quote]
Thats fine.

I do think there are a lot of people who don't fully understand the principles and actual risk though.

[quote bumbleymummy]@RedToothBrush yes, and I’m happy with that risk. I have never been overly worried about COVID. I do much riskier things on a daily basis that could also have significant long term consequences for my health.[/quote]
But you don't care about putting vulnerable people at risk. You only talk about assessing the risk to you.

Actually I think the flu vaccine should be mandatory for care workers. However, remind me of the last time flu or the common cold were classified as a pandemic?