Vaccination to be mandatory for care home staff

[Horseyhorsey3]

www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jun/15/covid-jabs-to-become-mandatory-for-care-home-staff-in-england

It will be interesting to see how this affects retention and recruitment of staff... Or not...

It will then have to be mandatory for any other people who enter the care home, visitors etc.
This will see care homes closing down.

@Dongdingdong

How about anti vax patients?

Good point! Perhaps they should make the vaccine mandatory for everyone except those who can’t have it for medical reasons.

How would you police this? Fine people? Turn up at their door with the cops?

And everyone visiting them and everyone putting the laws into place, and everyone on their phone contact list.... after all, good for the goose etc

@ollyollyoxenfree

It wasn't mandatory for my place to study physiotherapy

@Horseyhorsey3 as I said, mandatory vaccination is required for certain patient facing roles, not all

I'm a student nurse and it isn't mandatory. I have had both vaccines and just finished my hep b course too but it was very much a choice not mandatory

@ollyollyoxenfree

It wasn't mandatory for my place to study physiotherapy

@Horseyhorsey3 as I said, mandatory vaccination is required for certain patient facing roles, not all

Which ones?

You don’t have to have the flu vaccine

The vaccines at best only cut transmission by 50%. So you can be vaccinated and STILL transmit the disease.
Not a good enough reason to force only
Care home staff into mandatory vaccinations.
You make it mandatory for all, or not at all.

@BettyBurntBuns

You don’t have to have the flu vaccine

I don't think anyone said has said HCPs have to have the 'flu vaccine?

influenza is not comparable to coronavirus

@Bargebill19

The vaccines at best only cut transmission by 50%. So you can be vaccinated and STILL transmit the disease. Not a good enough reason to force only Care home staff into mandatory vaccinations. You make it mandatory for all, or not at all.

where are you pulling that figure from @Bargebill19? It's still being evaluated and will vary greatly depending on things like the dominant strain in the area

vaccination reduces transmission, this is the argument for care staff needing to have it

you can argue the ethics but it's pointless to try and deny why it's being put forward

Good.

As a family we've just been prevented from visiting our (recently admitted, not yet settled in) relative in a care home because a member of staff has tested positive. We're still waiting to hear how long it is before we're allowed to see her again. Relative has been double jabbed, as have we.

I don't know if the member of staff who tested positive has been jabbed - but it seems very very plausible that they haven't.

I don't take kindly to my elderly relative's welfare being compromised in the form of not being allowed visitors because a care home staff member is too keen on pseudoscience and conspiracy theories to get jabbed.

@DeathByWalkies

Good.

As a family we've just been prevented from visiting our (recently admitted, not yet settled in) relative in a care home because a member of staff has tested positive. We're still waiting to hear how long it is before we're allowed to see her again. Relative has been double jabbed, as have we.

I don't know if the member of staff who tested positive has been jabbed - but it seems very very plausible that they haven't.

I don't take kindly to my elderly relative's welfare being compromised in the form of not being allowed visitors because a care home staff member is too keen on pseudoscience and conspiracy theories to get jabbed.

Vaccines aren’t 100% effective

Front line medical staff have long since had to have Hep B for example, so compulsory vaccines aren’t new.

I am not in favour unless necessary, but if you are doing close care of the vulnerable, I think it is necessary unfortunately.

I think people will just get used to it, I don’t think it will cause a big drop off in staff

@DeathByWalkies

Good.

As a family we've just been prevented from visiting our (recently admitted, not yet settled in) relative in a care home because a member of staff has tested positive. We're still waiting to hear how long it is before we're allowed to see her again. Relative has been double jabbed, as have we.

I don't know if the member of staff who tested positive has been jabbed - but it seems very very plausible that they haven't.

I don't take kindly to my elderly relative's welfare being compromised in the form of not being allowed visitors because a care home staff member is too keen on pseudoscience and conspiracy theories to get jabbed.

There are people in hospital with Covid who have been double jabbed. The vaccine is not 100% and it is disturbing to see people put all their faith and hope into it, and then blame people who did not have it, for any infection. How will you cope knowing that some care home residents are not vaccinated either?

Vaccines aren’t 100% effective

@BettyBurntBuns

nope, no one ever said they were

this is precisely the argument why vaccination as protection isn't an individual choice (ie protect the elderly/vulnerable and let everyone else do what they want)

@partyatthepalace

Front line medical staff have long since had to have Hep B for example, so compulsory vaccines aren’t new.

I am not in favour unless necessary, but if you are doing close care of the vulnerable, I think it is necessary unfortunately.

I think people will just get used to it, I don’t think it will cause a big drop off in staff

Jabs are not compulsory for frontline staff. You can sign a disclaimer.

@speckledostrichegg

Vaccines aren’t 100% effective

@BettyBurntBuns

nope, no one ever said they were

this is precisely the argument why vaccination as protection isn't an individual choice (ie protect the elderly/vulnerable and let everyone else do what they want)

Wish I understood

@speckledostrichegg

It was pulled from the internet - in response to all those posters who say I’m wrong to believe it doesn’t 100% stop transmission of the virus. My argument is valid. If it did stop all transmission and everyone was vaccinated who came into a care home, then protection of the residents would be guaranteed. Protection of residents being the reason for forcing mandatory vaccinations for care staff through. But it doesn’t and not all people who enter a care home will be vaccinated. So making it comply for staff is totally illogical. It may also reduce the available workforce and thus put residents in greater danger than if you let people make up their own minds as to wether that wish to be vaccinated or not.

Also, where do you stop forcing people to be vaccinated? If care home staff are forced, so should all nhs staff and all private carers, and all private health care staff. But why stop there? There already talk of making it mandatory for all children to be vaccinated - so no vaccine no school?
Thin edge of the wedge.

If individual employers want to make it mandatory (like a certain plumber) then fine, a choice is still maintained - staff can seek work elsewhere in the sector. But government making it mandatory- no.

There are people in hospital with Covid who have been double jabbed.
The vaccine is not 100% and it is disturbing to see people put all their faith and hope into it, and then blame people who did not have it, for any infection.
How will you cope knowing that some care home residents are not vaccinated either?

I'm aware there are small numbers of cases of people who have been jabbed ending up in hospital - which is why I said it seemed very very plausible that they haven't, not that they clearly haven't been vaccinated.

Only 83.6% of care home staff have had a single dose and 68.7% have been double jabbed. Given that they were prioritised for vaccines, and have all had the opportunity to be double jabbed, those numbers are concerningly low.

On a purely statistical level, the chances are that the worker in question just didn't have the vaccine, rather than being one of the unusual cases of a fully vaccinated person who catches covid.

TBH I think a covid vaccine should be compulsory for all new residents in care homes. We kept my relative out until she had been vaccinated - in the end SS basically said she had to go in. I certainly don't think special measures should be taken to protect care home residents who chose not to have the vaccine, when those special measures would be to the detriment of other residents.

There already talk of making it mandatory for all children to be vaccinated - so no vaccine no school?

link to source or direct quote? @Bargebill19

in response to all those posters who say I’m wrong to believe it doesn’t 100% stop transmission of the virus.

also not true, you've repeatedly said on this thread that vaccination doesn't make a difference to transmission, which is why posters have replied to correct you

@Bargebill19

In that case, they need to make ALL visitors, volunteers and nhs staff visiting the homes have compulsory vaccinations as well. ALL residents also need to be vaccinated to protect staff. Covid vaccinations neither stops transmission between people or makes it less serious when transmitted. It only means you are likely to be less ill if you catch it.

Yes I’ve had both my vaccinations. Yes I believe in vaccinations programs.

as above

I really hate that @MNHQ lets all this anti-vax BS and conspiracy theories stand on the site. It does nothing to help advance society and it just spreads vaccine hesitancy unnecessarily.

@BonnieDundee, can I ask (honestly and genuinely) why you'd rather leave your job than have the jab?

I ask (again, honestly and genuinely) because most of my friends who are doctors or nurses and have suffered through this appalling year were absolutely thrilled to get the vaccine. It was partly because they didn't want to get sick themselves, being in the front lines, and partly because they thought that it would help the collective health of the nation. (They saw a lot of death, I think, and didn't want to see more.)

Have you had a different experience? Do you not trust the vaccine? Again, I'm not being goady here--I'm just honestly curious.

TBH I think a covid vaccine should be compulsory for all new residents in care homes. We kept my relative out until she had been vaccinated - in the end SS basically said she had to go in. I certainly don't think special measures should be taken to protect care home residents who chose not to have the vaccine, when those special measures would be to the detriment of other residents

And where will that stop? Only get sent to a care home if you have the vaccine? Only get an operation if you have the vaccine? Only get admitted to a MH unit if you have the vaccine? Only get treatment at all from the NHS of you have had the vaccine? Such a slippery slope.

Its not anti vax to point out that some have experienced side effects from the vaccine. Its rare thankfully but it happens.