Vaccination to be mandatory for care home staff

[Horseyhorsey3]

www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jun/15/covid-jabs-to-become-mandatory-for-care-home-staff-in-england

It will be interesting to see how this affects retention and recruitment of staff... Or not...

@motherrunner What would your Mum want? Not sure how far her dementia has gone, so what would her views have been prior? Bodily autonomy is pretty important. So is seeing loved ones.

I’m an ICU nurse and as much as it is a potential recruitment / retention problem, I actually agree with this decision.

The situation in care homes in the first wave was ghastly, most care home staff have had the vaccine and for some of the minority that haven’t their reasoning has troubled me.

However, there should be some reasonable exemptions.

In reality I think this is an empty threat. In the nhs it’s ‘mandatory’ to have the hepatitis B vaccination, but not everyone has it, or has had all of them.

bbc reporting its going to be law for nhs staff too like the hepatitis jab - its currently in consultation for nhs

[quote Tryingtryingandtrying]@motherrunner What would your Mum want? Not sure how far her dementia has gone, so what would her views have been prior? Bodily autonomy is pretty important. So is seeing loved ones.[/quote]
I wouldn’t know. She has been mute for 5 years so funnily enough never really had a conversation about ‘if we ever had a pandemic would you want your carers to be vaccinated?’.

I think it’s easier to ask, if you were in hospital would you want your nurse or doctor to be vaccinated. Yes, I would.

@speckledostrichegg

you are stating that the coronavirus vaccines are to be made mandatory for children

I think Bargebill may have read articles referring to this, a ruling by the European court:

European court rules compulsory vaccinations for children as legal and 'necessary'

How a court ruling lays the ground for mandatory COVID-19 vaccination

I don't know if the member of staff who tested positive has been jabbed - but it seems very very plausible that they haven't.

I don't take kindly to my elderly relative's welfare being compromised in the form of not being allowed visitors because a care home staff member is too keen on pseudoscience and conspiracy theories to get jabbed.

Wow! You just made something up and decided it is true

The person may have had the vaccine, they may not. They may have good reason for not having it, but no they're into conspiracy theories and pseudo science 🤔

[quote Wilkolampshade]@Egeegogxmv you think this makes a care homes 'forced labour camps' , seriously? Like Auschwitz? How fucking offensive.
Here's a little link to some info about a forced labour camp. Educate yourself.
www.theholocaustexplained.org/the-camps/types-of-camps/work-camps/[/quote]
Yeah I agree. I’m pretty fucking tired of anti vaxxers, Covid skeptics, and anti-maskers comparing these policies to the horrifically violent chattel slavery of Africans or the Holocaust of Jews, Gypsies, intellectuals or the medically unfit. It’s disgraceful.

@Watapalava

bbc reporting its going to be law for nhs staff too like the hepatitis jab - its currently in consultation for nhs

Good. The waffling about vaccines in the British public has been shameful and ridiculous. This isn’t rocket science. Everyone pitches in to get vaccinated, isolate the contagious, wash their hands, and wear a mask then the sooner we all get out of this. This has been an effective and proven course of action for hundreds of years.

People need to stop listening to or reading anti-vaccine and anti-science disinformation and misinformation.

@Nancydrawn

It's not conspiracy theory related but I do have a good reason. I'm not getting into that reason on here tho

@MrsKeats

Cowardly? To protect vulnerable people? Ridiculous comment.

This.

People I know that work with vulnerable people have already been vaccinated anyway.

This is so short sighted. The last thing the care industry needs is staff leaving.

[quote Glasstabletop]@MrsKeats

It's cowardly to go after care home staff first. A sector that is underpaid, treated terribly and un-unionised. It's a cynical tactic to test the water before they go after the heavily unionised NHS staff.

Nobody should be coerced into a medical procedure they don't want.[/quote]

Absolutely.

@IAmDaveTheSerialShagger

Interesting, they are breaking the law forcing an untested vaccine in someone without their informed consent.

It's a tested vaccine. Millions and millions have now had it around the world.

No -one has to work with vulnerable people or the elderly. It should be necessary though to have the vaccine to protect the vulnerable and elderly should you chose to work with them.

No forcing - get a different job.

The employment practices of care homes and care agencies should be tackled .
To many 12 hours /zero hours contracts with staff fighting for extra hours and moonlighting moving between care settings to earn enough to live on. Reliance on bank staff. The risk of Transmission between care settings is increased. Staff turnover needs to be addressed.
Pay care staff more, give them decent contracts with guaranteed hours .

That article says that the government are keen to make it mandatory for all in the NSH so that would surely include doctors and nurses not just care home staff

Good! Dp's dd cannot speak for herself, she relies on the adults around her to keep her safe. She's vaccinated but very vulnerable, vaccination isn't 100% so both the cares for person and the carers need to be vaccinated whenever possible. Her carers are all vaccinated

[quote Glasstabletop]@MrsKeats

It's cowardly to go after care home staff first. A sector that is underpaid, treated terribly and un-unionised. It's a cynical tactic to test the water before they go after the heavily unionised NHS staff.

Nobody should be coerced into a medical procedure they don't want.[/quote]
Couldn't agree more

For the person who asked up thread, there is some data for care home staff vaccinated:

www.england.nhs.uk/statistics/statistical-work-areas/supplementary-information/

There is a spreadsheet that shows number of patients and staff at care homes vaccinated.

@Antiopa12

The employment practices of care homes and care agencies should be tackled . To many 12 hours /zero hours contracts with staff fighting for extra hours and moonlighting moving between care settings to earn enough to live on. Reliance on bank staff. The risk of Transmission between care settings is increased. Staff turnover needs to be addressed. Pay care staff more, give them decent contracts with guaranteed hours .

Good points.

Care staff should have better conditions to go along with requirements.

I think this is a dodgy route to be going down. Where will it stop? Who else will be threatened with job lost without a vaccine? Why just covid vaccine? Are care home staff forced to have the flu vaccine? What about all those parents who refuse to vaccinate their children for all the other diseases/illnesses out there are they going to make them mandatory too? We are suppose to live in a free country where we are allowed to make our own decisions we are blindly walking into an authoritarian society.

Agree with this. I don’t think anyone should be coerced into having a medical intervention. And I am not anti-vaccine (had both jabs myself), but once you start mandating medical interventions, you are taking away free will over bodily autonomy.

Interesting to see June the % of carers, who have been vaccinated as well as residents.

Of course it's the wrong decision.
As a nurse of over 30 years it infuriates me every winter how non vulnerable staff, and even very young DC these days are pushed to have the flu vaccine en masse, largely to protect the elderly or those with chronic illnesses - many thousands of which repeatedly refuse to have it themselves. I see it every day.
Hepatitis B poses a very different risk to the average working person than Covid.

I managed care homes for years. People who don’t want the jab will leave. It’s sometimes impossible to recruit new staff, this is going to make it even harder.

Homes that can’t recruit will have to close. I know if two Homes for young adults with learning disabilities that closed last year due to not being able to recruit enough staff and that was before this,

Front line medical staff have long since had to have Hep B for example, so compulsory vaccines aren’t new.

Is that to protect the staff from patients? Think it might be.

Will annual covid & flu boosters become mandatory, too?

Realistically, how much is this move (will lead to more severe staff shortages) going to cost the care home sector in agency staff? Which means how much will it cost us all in private & public costs for care home staff?

I guess it might create huge opportunities for new immigrants, at least.

Must be someone figuring out how much taxpayers will pay to implement this policy. Not pretty.

ps: and of course bed-blocking. So the net effect will mean more NHS beds filled with patients who can't get into a care home. Maybe a good time to invest in companies that build hospitals.