Vaccination to be mandatory for care home staff

[Horseyhorsey3]

www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jun/15/covid-jabs-to-become-mandatory-for-care-home-staff-in-england

It will be interesting to see how this affects retention and recruitment of staff... Or not...

@Egeegogxmv

just answering your question as to the rationale

Because the vaccine is not 100% effective, so the elderly and vulnerable still face some risk. But being vaccinated reduces your chance of passing it on.

Not true - even NHS staff can refuse any vaccination as long as they sign a waiver, here's one from Southern Health Trust...

However, what would happen to staff who had signed a waiver in an epidemic of that disease, in which it was clear that the greater risk of them transmitting the disease raised the risk they posed to their patients to an unacceptable level? Would they be moved role / a risk of being removed from their post for the duration?

@BonnieDundee

That was in reply to egeegogxmv

Doesn't that waiver say their employability in that role could be at risk if they don't have the vaccines @Horseyhorsey3?

I responded to the consultation about this a few months back, and the way the questions were worded was appalling. I'm studying psychology and even in year 1 we are taught how to word research questionnaires so that questions aren't leading and don't have assumptions built in to them, are clear and not misleading etc. The government couldn't even manage to do that. It was a done deal from the start I think. Fucking horrendous. I hope care workers push back really strongly against this.

"can't see why it would be care home staff and not dom care (what your friend does)."

It is hard to enforce with dom care because people employ privately.

as i said in a previous post @Horseyhorsey3

vaccination was a mandatory part of my med school offer

I would have lost my place if I hadn't had it done in time

It's a balance of risk, isn't it?

If a setting does a risk assessment, and says 'The risk of covid to these patients, via unvaccinated staff, is unacceptably high', then under H&S legislation, they MUST mitigate that risk to bring it to acceptable levels.

If the staff cannot do their jobs safely (perhaps by using full PPE even once not required for others?) then the other mitigation is a requirement to be vaccinated.

Excellent news and about time. It’s disgraceful that someone could refuse to have the vaccine then mingle among elderly and vulnerable people, knowingly putting their lives at risk.

Indeed it does, "could" being the operative word.

Good. Needs to be a condition of employment in the NHS too.

Agreed. Why should the anti-vax brigade be allowed to put the lives of their patients and colleagues at risk? Answer: they shouldn’t.

@cantkeepawayforever

Not true - even NHS staff can refuse any vaccination as long as they sign a waiver, here's one from Southern Health Trust...

However, what would happen to staff who had signed a waiver in an epidemic of that disease, in which it was clear that the greater risk of them transmitting the disease raised the risk they posed to their patients to an unacceptable level? Would they be moved role / a risk of being removed from their post for the duration?

Not quite the same, but staff who weren't able to be fitted with an FFP3 respirator have been kept away from performing aerosol generating procedures for their safety.

I went to uni for HCP training and baulked at the vaccines needed (bad needle phobia)... I was told it was ultimately up to me and I could not be forced. Still had a place on the course regardless. They talked me round in the end (and it was tough). The vaccines were for my protection ultimately.

How about anti vax patients?

@MorriseysGladioli

How about anti vax patients?

Yep. In a care home setting, they could be well spreading it amongst themselves. But, of course, we must put the blame on the zero hour contract minimum age care worker who had no experience and is only there to avoid Job Centre sanctions.

Covid vaccinations neither stops transmission between people or makes it less serious when transmitted. It only means you are likely to be less ill if you catch it.

Findings to date suggest that vaccination does indeed help to reduce transmission.

@ollyollyoxenfree

as i said in a previous post *@Horseyhorsey3*

vaccination was a mandatory part of my med school offer

I would have lost my place if I hadn't had it done in time

It wasn't mandatory for my place to study physiotherapy

I understand why there are calls for mandatory vaccinations but one consequence is that Care homes will have even greater problems with recruiting and retaining staff

What is the take up of care staff and vaccinations at the moment?

@ollyollyoxenfree

why is this shocking people to such an extent? It's not a new policy. Mandatory vaccination for various patient facing roles has always been the case, it's part of the job.

Back in the day my med school place required hep B vaccination as well as the requisite grades (and they made a big deal about how if we missed the deadline we'd lose the offer!), I don't remember anyone being up in arms about it

Those vaccinations are not mandatory. In nursing. They are recommended but not compulsory.

@MercyBooth thank you

@RhubarbTea I would assume the wording was deliberate rather than something they couldn't get right. And I will be doing my utmost to push back on this.

I won't starve. I'm pretty certain I'll get other work, but probably nothing that utilises my skills

How about anti vax patients?

Good point! Perhaps they should make the vaccine mandatory for everyone except those who can’t have it for medical reasons.

It wasn't mandatory for my place to study physiotherapy

@Horseyhorsey3 as I said, mandatory vaccination is required for certain patient facing roles, not all