Can we really just stop life to preserve every life?

[MrsHastingslikethebattle]

Everyone whom I know is more scared of the Governments reaction to Covid, than Covid itself.

The vaccinations are the most protection we are ever going to get, and yes people will still die.

Why can't we just accept that people die of Covid like we accept thousands each year who have died through flu and other preventable diseases?Millions and millions of people have died through smoking and alcohol, costing millions to the NHS. Yet we haven't banned them?
Viruses mutate and Covid is no different. They're will be variants indefinitely. Are we to cower behind our sofas every time a new one is announced?
The media in full force say how serious the new strain is, then lo and behold, weeks later it shows the vaccines are still offering high protection.
Public Health have started there is no correlation between the Indian variant and hospital admissions.
There is also a report that over 80% of Covid infections were caught in hospital, yet hospitality is are still targeted with table service, masks and track and trace.

When did this become about cases? not deaths and hospital admissions like it was to begin with?

The media and government have done well to completely scare people into submission. This is no longer about protection, its control and power.

Mumsnet is the only place is seems where people want these restrictions to carry on.

Everyone in real life has had enough and can see through this bullshit for what it really is!

#Imdone

I think it's not difficult to understand what's really happening. Those who don't are deliberately misunderstanding, or twisting the narrative.
Everyone doesn't need to be vaccinated, no one's forcing someone who doesn't want to. And from what I've seen, plenty of young people are willing to get vaccinated. Why not? It's their life and health.

The problem for NHS is that if a large number of wards have to remain infectious disease wards (not just ICU, but general wards where those who are less ill but need (eg oxygen support for a while), it will leave them in a much poorer position to tackle the backlog

Sorry @Dontforgetyourbrolly. Must be hard.

I am happy myself with the level of restrictions we have now but I am so angry that they have let this happen again. By not shutting the borders to India we have wasted the vaccination and summer bonus. Yes it would have arrived eventually but nowhere near as quickly. Our useless quarantine system which has so many loopholes is a waste of time .

I worry enormously about young people and their education. A lot of older people have been going g about their lives here pretty much the whole time, but children have lost months of education , school events and the disaster of GCSE and A levels , and the university situation is appalling.

Where is the framework for living with Covid , they have had nearly 18months to come up with a framework that covers working norms, education, isolation protocols, guidance on basically the new normal. Nothing just a complete vacuum

[quote ihearttc]@OliveTree75

Are you actually serious? My parents are over 80 and would gladly give up their lives so that me and my grandchildren can actually live our lives. In the words of my Dad “We’ve already had our lives, I don’t want to spend another year like this Id rather not be here anymore”.

I’m sure there are many many more people to feel like this. I’ve got a 16 year old who is at rock bottom, for everyone saying oh but you can do everything now anyway he really can’t. No football matches to watch (he has a season ticket he hasn’t even sat in this year), no F1 which has been planned for ages (thanks to last night announcements), no prom, no Summer job as no one is hiring, no holiday abroad. No much life for a 16 year old is it? But that’s ok as long as 1 life can be saved?

I’m a TA and have worked throughout. I’ve had Covid and been double vaccinated but STILL my life is on hold. Incidentally I was far far sicker from the vaccine than I was from Covid.

This has to stop and life has to go on. The effect this is having on children and young people is awful.[/quote]
Your parents don't get to speak for all elderly people,my parents are both 79 and don't want to die just yet,and I don't want them to either ,we are all fully vaccinated,nobody wants the restrictions to go on forever ,but I do watch the news and live in the northwest,and can see what's happening locally .

@UnmentionedElephantDildo

Gove was on BBC Breakfast this morning and spoke on this point. Boris, Vallence and Whitty have all spoken on it in the past too.

They all say we are working towards a liveable with level.

I don't think they are all likely to be outright lying on this.

We need a largely vaccinated population in order to achieve it, because if the disease is circulating freely in a population where only a part is vaccinated, you will still see large numbers of cases, and a small proportion of a large number is still going to be a large number. It's also the conditions which most favour the emergence of new variants

Yeah MP's never lie.

I'm sick of the goal post being moved.
If people are still scared and nervous then they can restrict themselves.
The rest of us can just crack on now.
Covid is not going away so we have to live with it !

@Tealightsandd

Oh how wonderful is the UK way. Spending a year and a half screaming and tantruming about any and all containment measures (so causing it to drag out longer) and othering the vulnerable (including the millions of working age). Ignoring the risks of long term disability from Long Covid including organ damage and diabetes. Gambling with a new disease (possibly genetically modified and escaped from a lab) with long term consequences for many.

So here we are still in this mess, 150,000 dead and counting, lots long term ill, economy damaged. As an extra treat, the government decided to import the new Delta strain.

Meanwhile other countries closed their borders with essential travel only (i.e. imports and exports), had real quarantine, and took the proactive preventative measures needed to contain a contagious disease. As a result they have few deaths, healthier economies, limited risk of Long Covid disability, and life largely as normal.

Oh the difference between the countries with morals, common sense, and foresight. Versus those plagued with selfishness, idiocy, and incompetence.

The best post on this thread so far. That’s the sum of it and I agree with every single word.

Not sure where the OP are getting some of their facts from

It’s quite clear that one consequence is that we cannot just keep shutting down the country every time the health service cannot cope. We will be in lockdown for a decade. Obviously we have to massively expand our health service to be able to cope with the new normal. This might include for example Covid hospitals in the same way we had TB hospitals . We need to train a lot more staff and maybe bring back the non graduate nurse , the old SEN grade, I don’t know what the solution is but we need to be thinking creatively about this .

Are you also ok OP with not getting emergency treatment if you have a car accident because the hospitals are rammed? Because I can sure as hell guarantee that if that happened to someone they'd be on the front page of the Sun or DM with a sad face.

Besides for this government, it's less about human life anyway. They are not trying to preserve it, though some of us non Tory votes might hold it in higher regard. This is all about the economy. The true economic cost of the fall out of this will be huge. Over 1m people in the UK have Long Covid, costing billions to the economy; reduced workforce, reduced taxes into the treasury, welfare benefits and healthcare costs. tThey are well aware of that.

Most people don't have a clue and just see this from their own egocentric viewpoint. It's more tiresome than the flipping pandemic tbh!

Variants will continue to appear. We can't shut life down forever , had we closed our borders we may at some point had this new variant but it could have been managed we could all behave got back to normal. Had we had a stronger initial lockdown sooner and with closed borders we would not have had a year of this. The government has not learnt. The borders need to be shut with full hotel quarantine as in some other countries.

@Lostandtired1 nothing makes sense any more.

We have a respiratory virus that majority have mild symptoms. It kills the a small number of the vulnerable and elderly.
It started off as to protect the elderly and NHS.

We've vaccinated the elderly and vulnerable. 41 million people have had at least 1 dose of the vaccine.
The over 50s and clinically vulnerable are double vaccinated. They count for 99% of Covid deaths.

Through the chaos, scare mongering media..we have lost sight of why we had this lockdown.
The government keep changing the goal posts and toying with people lives. It's scary.

This winter when cases go up, like any respiratory virus, they will try and justify more low key restrictions to our freedom. They are playing with peoples lives. That in itself, is what scares me.

@olivetree75

Why can't your son get a summer job? There is huge numbers of job adverts... Where Europeans used to do the jobs especially finding it hard to fill vacancies.
My local rural town has adds for basic jobs in more than six places.
All the local farms are short of staff.
Schools here having proms at school in school hall... Same numbers as usually gobto assembly so must be allowed.
I have a Yr 13 child, so I agree it's be awful for them exam wise but I don't think their lives are quite as awful as you make out.
If he has a season ticket why is he not getting to go to some of the limited fans matches?
I have noticed its easier to sit and wail about how awful their lives are, and how they have missed so much... Instead of looking for opportunities.. Such as summer jobs, events they can go to..
My dds have organised a fake prom party outside in the garden... They are all dressing up and doing a bbq and playlist on their laptops...

@GlencoraP

It’s quite clear that one consequence is that we cannot just keep shutting down the country every time the health service cannot cope. We will be in lockdown for a decade. Obviously we have to massively expand our health service to be able to cope with the new normal. This might include for example Covid hospitals in the same way we had TB hospitals . We need to train a lot more staff and maybe bring back the non graduate nurse , the old SEN grade, I don’t know what the solution is but we need to be thinking creatively about this .

They have essentially brought back SEN nurses ,they are now called nursing associates ,my friend has just completed her training .

The clinically vulnerable and elderly have been vaccinated.

Eh? What planet are you on OP? There are loads of unvaccinated CV people, for example CEV and CV children under 18. Your ignorance of the actual facts is staggering!

I'm sick of the goal post being moved.

Without the more infectious delta variant the goal post wouldn’t have had to be moved. In a four weeks, the most susceptible will be double vaxxed and most adults will have had their first.

It’s a four week delay with the current restrictions which aren’t particularly restricting for many of us. The government needs to step up and support the hospitality sector but this is a short delay in the context of what’s gone before.

@Carameljack

Of course katfold’s post was sarcastic. Everyone’s lost their heads so much over covid the past year people are reading it like a genuine post.

I hope you are right but it's somethingpeople say too often in all seriousness. My mum has dementia, early stage do she doesn't even get to see carers and the social isolation has had an awful effect on her. Last week just one of her social activities opened up again and the difference is amazing. No violent outbursts for for my 94yo dad to deal with. Of course she won't get back to where she was but getting out and about his hugely beneficial. Perhaps she should just have had more perspective.

@Theredjellybean funny enough, we don't all live on farms. We live in the second city. There are no jobs and my DC have applied for dozens. All year 11 school events cancelled and there is very little for them to do.

Kids of all ages are the main victims of these ever-moving goalposts and our obsession with covid safety but I do think the tide of opinion is slowly turning.

@MrsHastingslikethebattle exactly.

It the scaring the shit out of people to the point they are frightened to go out
or engage in any sort of life. My parents (both in their 80s) are still terrified, and nothing I say can change it, it breaks my heart. They are both double vaccinated and really healthy for their age, but are spending their last years in their bungalow religiously watching the news every night.

@countrygirl99 I'm sorry your Mum and Dad have had to go through that. More perspective is sadly lacking due to the scaremongering from the media and the government.

It's very melodramatic to say the current restrictions stop life. A sense of perspective is seriously missing from MN these days.

I agree. I have friends in the UK and not one of them rants and raves the way people do on MN, they all just get on with it and don't complain.

@BonnesVacances

The clinically vulnerable and elderly have been vaccinated.

Eh? What planet are you on OP? There are loads of unvaccinated CV people, for example CEV and CV children under 18. Your ignorance of the actual facts is staggering!

How old are you?!

Let me make something clear: I will NOT vaccinate my child to protect you or anyone else(including us) . Children are the least affected by Covid. My child's immune system works just fine and will not put an experimental drug into his little body because of selfish people like you.
I'm not anti vaccine: he's had all his vaccinations but I don't agree with this one.
Don't agree with vaccinating kids when we are still seeing the side effects of the vaccines in adults.

There are parents out there with CEV and CV children who do want to vaccinate their kids and currently haven't been able to yet. So the OP's assertion that all CV people have been vaccinated is incorrect.

This has nothing to do with your egocentric viewpoint about whether they should be doing it all, and whether you want to vaccinate your own DC or not, so there's no need to crowbar that in.

Agree. They said they wanted the AT Risk groups to be vaccinated then we'll be free, which they already are, but now the focus is All adults to have at least 1 vaccine, even though the younger adults are very unlikely to be very ill.
I am however very hopeful that July 29th will be the end if it. If that doesn't happen, I'm out!