Can we really just stop life to preserve every life?

[MrsHastingslikethebattle]

Everyone whom I know is more scared of the Governments reaction to Covid, than Covid itself.

The vaccinations are the most protection we are ever going to get, and yes people will still die.

Why can't we just accept that people die of Covid like we accept thousands each year who have died through flu and other preventable diseases?Millions and millions of people have died through smoking and alcohol, costing millions to the NHS. Yet we haven't banned them?
Viruses mutate and Covid is no different. They're will be variants indefinitely. Are we to cower behind our sofas every time a new one is announced?
The media in full force say how serious the new strain is, then lo and behold, weeks later it shows the vaccines are still offering high protection.
Public Health have started there is no correlation between the Indian variant and hospital admissions.
There is also a report that over 80% of Covid infections were caught in hospital, yet hospitality is are still targeted with table service, masks and track and trace.

When did this become about cases? not deaths and hospital admissions like it was to begin with?

The media and government have done well to completely scare people into submission. This is no longer about protection, its control and power.

Mumsnet is the only place is seems where people want these restrictions to carry on.

Everyone in real life has had enough and can see through this bullshit for what it really is!

#Imdone

@stopgap

I feel dreadfully sorry for people in the UK. I’m in the US and we are essentially back to normal—things have been open in my town since June 2020 and we haven’t taken any steps backwards.

I wish to god things were different in the UK. I haven’t seen my parents for 17 months. I was so hopeful they’d be able to travel to the US for August to see me and my family, but I’m feeling less and less optimistic as the days pass.

The American bounce back has been quite astonishing

@RedSoloCup

Agree fed up and done, esp want the end to bloody masks but been told that could be years 😢😢😢😢

Bollocks to that.

Quite a difference in the level of flu deaths each year and that which we have witnessed this year from covid....that was also with lockdowns so i would imagine the death figure would be significantly higher had we just all carried on as normal.
Hopefully the vaccines will bring covid deaths and illness more in line with flu levels which the NHS manages albeit only just each winter. To compare the figures from covid and flu right now as similar is just ridiculous and also the smoking and alcohol....I don't smoke or drink and a smoker or drinker isn't going to make me ill, because it isn't cautigious....yes passive smoking I know but actually it's very rare I come in contact with passive smoke in recent years due to mitigations in place such as no smoking in pubs and restaurants.

By the same argument, what makes your 'freedom' more important than someone's life?

Millions and millions of people have died through smoking and alcohol, costing millions to the NHS.

Nope. Definitely not smokers at least. They pay in more than they get out. Taking into account everything including reduced social care and pensions costs.

Talking of tax. If the lives of the vulnerable aren't of value, they should be allowed to stop paying tax. Why should they, if they're going to be sacrificed so that other people can 'live with it' (good luck with the quality of life living with the organ damage that Long Covid can cause).

If people want to condemn others to the higher risk of death, let them have a kinder way out. I mean, let's make our minds up. We don't allow assisted suicide or euthanasia because 'every life is precious', yet then people want to merrily condemn thousands to an untimely and unpleasant death...

Obviously each state has trodden its own path, some more reckless than others. I don’t have a bad word to say about our governor in Connecticut. Each stage of reopening was softly, softly and the vaccine rollout has been smooth. We are closing in on 60 percent fully vaxxed now in CT, and only recently did we ditch masks. Everyone wore them inside and out since March 2020, no exceptions. I know that more Republican states had a different approach.

but I think once all the vulnerable have had both vaccines we have to get back to normal as this isn't going away

They aren’t coming forward though are they? Hence the surge in cases in some areas. They maybe lining up a little too late.

@stopgap

Obviously each state has trodden its own path, some more reckless than others. I don’t have a bad word to say about our governor in Connecticut. Each stage of reopening was softly, softly and the vaccine rollout has been smooth. We are closing in on 60 percent fully vaxxed now in CT, and only recently did we ditch masks. Everyone wore them inside and out since March 2020, no exceptions. I know that more Republican states had a different approach.

Well, I am envious! I love the US and cannot wait to get back as soon you will have us 🙂

No we can't I see lots of people who are end of life in lockdown being given covid jabs who then die shortly after of unrelated causes multiple organ failure etc. Death has become such a taboo now.

I’m starting to think there is something significant happening (not related to Covid) that they want to keep quiet so they are focusing the news on Covid now. I’ve been with them up to today but their reaction seems disproportionate and not supported by numbers. It is quite worrying.

Oh how wonderful is the UK way. Spending a year and a half screaming and tantruming about any and all containment measures (so causing it to drag out longer) and othering the vulnerable (including the millions of working age). Ignoring the risks of long term disability from Long Covid including organ damage and diabetes. Gambling with a new disease (possibly genetically modified and escaped from a lab) with long term consequences for many.

So here we are still in this mess, 150,000 dead and counting, lots long term ill, economy damaged. As an extra treat, the government decided to import the new Delta strain.

Meanwhile other countries closed their borders with essential travel only (i.e. imports and exports), had real quarantine, and took the proactive preventative measures needed to contain a contagious disease. As a result they have few deaths, healthier economies, limited risk of Long Covid disability, and life largely as normal.

Oh the difference between the countries with morals, common sense, and foresight. Versus those plagued with selfishness, idiocy, and incompetence.

I agree with you OP.

I think a lot of us are beginning to lose faith that the government will ever willingly end the restrictions and restore civil liberties in their entirety. Not because of any dastardly conspiracy theory or executive power grab, but because they and the wider British population have become so incredibly risk averse. I don’t personally know anyone who is in favour of ongoing restrictions, but the apparent level of public support seen in recent polling suggests that the U.K. is currently one of the most fearful nations in the world.

For the first time ever I found myself agreeing with Theresa May in her speech to Parliament last week; COVID isn’t going anywhere, and at some point we need to face up to the fact that this virus is endemic, there will be variants and some people will inevitably die. We cannot indefinitely restrict civil liberties, separate families, diminish young people’s opportunities and reduce the entire population’s overall quality of life in order to protect a minority.
.

@RoseRedRoseBlue, hopefully that will be very soon!

@katfold

If restrictions save a single life they are worth it. And that's before you even consider Long Covid. Saving life is so important, and we must never ease restrictions until we know for sure every life have been saved. If the economy collapses, jobs are lost, it is all worth it if it extends just one life by even a day. Maybe some us just care more, maybe that's just how we are made

Well it’s ok for Theresa May. She’s diabetic and will have been double jabbed by now. I bet she wouldn’t be quite as keen if she had t been or if she had a vulnerable child in the family who can’t be jabbed yet and who risks their life everytime cases rise.

As for #I’m done I’m bloody done! Of having to listen to selfish idiots spouting off utter nonsense. Covid has honestly made me hate most of the human race. To be honest, it’s a pity it didn’t wipe us all out.

The issue is that from previous experience, hospitalizations and deaths may only start to rise steeply after a lag - and then it may be too late and we will have to lock down harder and longer.

It’s not only corona- deaths that result, it is the knock on effect on the health system. The nhs is still reeling from the previous 2 waves (which were worsened by locking down too late) and needs to catch up on clinics and surgeries. Even a modest rise in hospitalizations would scupper that and cause worsened outcomes in non- corona conditions.

@SoSadAboutMyDad

Remember Theresa May is nothing more than a failed Prime Minister. Failed being the key word.

It must be so hard worrying for a vulnerable child. I really hope the government start to vaccinate vulnerable children soon. It's approved for over 12s, which won't cover all CEV and CV children but it would at least be a start.

@Namenic

The issue is that from previous experience, hospitalizations and deaths may only start to rise steeply after a lag - and then it may be too late and we will have to lock down harder and longer.

It’s not only corona- deaths that result, it is the knock on effect on the health system. The nhs is still reeling from the previous 2 waves (which were worsened by locking down too late) and needs to catch up on clinics and surgeries. Even a modest rise in hospitalizations would scupper that and cause worsened outcomes in non- corona conditions.

Yes this

I don't even know what the restrictions are at the moment, or what else was supposed to be lifted on "freedom day". Just about everything is already open. The only thing that is a real pain is mask wearing, but was that going to be done away with on June 21st? Probably not.

As for protecting the NHS, it's been dead in the water for a long time. I thought the idea was it was supposed to protect us, not the other way around, but I've had to fork out for private health care numerous times because it's so crap.

Even a modest rise in hospitalizations would scupper that and cause worsened outcomes in non- corona conditions

Presumably everyone has to die of something, and we’re scared to talk about death applies equally to all other causes of death. Surely whether it’s the Covid the cancer or the traumatic brain injury we couldn’t treat because there were no icu beds doesn’t make a difference.

If restrictions save a single life they are worth it.

So, do we stick with restrictions until the end of time because flu, noro, rotavirus and a bunch of other things? Do you own a car? You realize people die every year from air pollution-triggered deaths and car accidents---shall we ban cars as well then?

Not sure if @katfold is trying to be ironic or just has an incredibly poor grasp of economics. Crashing the economy to save one life from covid is such an idiotic thing to say I can only hope that it was a joke. We have never and will never (hopefully) adopt a policy of preserving life at all costs. People die every day in road accidents, from asthma. Do we ban cars and planes? Children sometimes die on play equipment - should we ban all that? Processed food, alcohol, the list is endless. Do we ban everything to preserve one day of someone’s life? That’s even before you talk about the implications on life expectancy if we, as they’re proposing, crash the economy. Has covid really affected people’s rational thinking so badly?

Mn and their desire for restrictions, baffle me.

@SonnetForSpring

Because if we don't try to control covid, it will destroy our health service. What is so difficult to understand about that? Health care is a basic human right. It has to be protected.

So why were the Nightingale hospitals dismantled completely last summer? Doesn;t that strike you as somewhat at odds with those claims? That the hoopps retired medics had to jump through to get re-enlisted last spring were byzantine, verging on impossible?

Rafals - not every disease is fatal vs non-fatal. Early diagnosis and treatment has a big impact on outcomes for several conditions - cancer, diabetes, heart disease, autoimmune conditions. It can make the difference of several good quality years of life.

The economy will be harmed far more if we let it get out of control and have to lock down harder and longer. Maybe the govt are being too cautious, but I think the downsides of this (pausing is a moderate action, not introducing more restrictions) are less bad than chancing it like they did with the delta variant, christmas 2nd wave.