Can we really just stop life to preserve every life?

[MrsHastingslikethebattle]

Everyone whom I know is more scared of the Governments reaction to Covid, than Covid itself.

The vaccinations are the most protection we are ever going to get, and yes people will still die.

Why can't we just accept that people die of Covid like we accept thousands each year who have died through flu and other preventable diseases?Millions and millions of people have died through smoking and alcohol, costing millions to the NHS. Yet we haven't banned them?
Viruses mutate and Covid is no different. They're will be variants indefinitely. Are we to cower behind our sofas every time a new one is announced?
The media in full force say how serious the new strain is, then lo and behold, weeks later it shows the vaccines are still offering high protection.
Public Health have started there is no correlation between the Indian variant and hospital admissions.
There is also a report that over 80% of Covid infections were caught in hospital, yet hospitality is are still targeted with table service, masks and track and trace.

When did this become about cases? not deaths and hospital admissions like it was to begin with?

The media and government have done well to completely scare people into submission. This is no longer about protection, its control and power.

Mumsnet is the only place is seems where people want these restrictions to carry on.

Everyone in real life has had enough and can see through this bullshit for what it really is!

#Imdone

@katfold

If restrictions save a single life they are worth it. And that's before you even consider Long Covid. Saving life is so important, and we must never ease restrictions until we know for sure every life have been saved. If the economy collapses, jobs are lost, it is all worth it if it extends just one life by even a day. Maybe some us just care more, maybe that's just how we are made

Fuck me. What about all of the lives that have been lost due to delaying of medical treatment? Or those people who have lost jobs, which you think so unimportant, and have committed suicide as they see no way out of their desperate situation. Or is it just the lives of those who had covid that are important?

@MrsHastingslikethebattle

Jeez, this thread had spiralled fast, I've been at work.

Covid isn't just a respiratory disease, it affects other organs

So does other diseases. So does other preventable diseases. Do we restrict 68 million people when they are dying of other causes?
Again, it seems like we are allowed to get ill with other diseases but not Covid.

All of the CV children havent been vaccinated

1. so they are all going to drop down dead if we stop restrictions on the 21st June? After over a year?
2. if they are clinically vulnerable children then surely they would self isolate and those around them self isolate and take extra precautions. Your not going to see a CV vulnerable child in a pub or at a festival are you?

we have to wait til the majority are vaccinated

Again why? There is mountains of evidence which I dont have time at the moment to link it all, that the majority of deaths, over 98% and hospital admissions have been 60s and over.
So that leaves 1%/2% of people.

We restrict the lives of 68 million people to preserve not even 1% of the population?

Its complete and utter bonkers.

Yes you do see children in pubs and at festivals, my children do both with us. They love Wetherspoons fish and chips and the whole experience of Croxfest.

@Wannabangbang

I find it crazy that you can hang around with 50 or so others in the likes of primark and tk maxx but you can't mix with more than 6 people yoi know in a pub, no music, no dancing. But you can brush sweaty arms with strangers everywhere else. Nuts

You're not supposed to 'brush sweaty arms in Primark' you're supposed to stay 2 metres apart, and also wear masks, which catch most of the virus particles. Haven't you seen the signs? Plus any interaction is transient.

Whereas people in groups in a pub tend to all sit facing each other, for hours at a time, chatting in an animated way, without masks on, which projects the virus. The risk is far higher.

These decisions aren't just pulled out of the air. There's a load of modelling behind it, on a population level, so while restrictions might sometimes look illogical to the individual, they make perfect sense on a population level.

This whole discussion about modelling baffles me. Models are designed to show various different outcomes based on various different variables. You then look at the various outcomes and plan accordingly.

It was easier in the first two waves to get more accurate modelling because the variable were easier to set. This third wave is harder because the vaccine efficacy in terms of transmission and hospitalisation is difficult to gauge what we are trying to achieve as.

There are some totally unhinged, batshit people on this thread.

I really do not understand why people arent angry about this!?

All those saying we need to slow down and allow restrictions and the government follow the advice blah blah

The had a fucking chance to stop/decrease the detla variant bu banning the bloody flights coming in from india like most countries did, but no, they allowed 4/5 flights a day to still come in, and I bet none of them quarantined and now look, WE have to pay the price of this extended lockdown because of this.

if people want to restrictions then they can restrict themselves but doon’t expect other people who put their lives on hold for nearly 2 years to comply.

Just to get away from the sheer boredom of endless Covid coverage, jump in the car and go to a mall with no fucking queues and people throwing themselves against the wall in the sight of another human being or the ridiculousness of wearing a mask to enter a restaurant and then take it off once you're at the table.Just to get away from the sheer boredom of endless Covid coverage, jump in the car and go to a mall with no fucking queues and people throwing themselves against the wall in the sight of another human being or the ridiculousness of wearing a mask to enter a restaurant and then take it off once you're at the table

Yes. Went out yesterday for most of the day. Glorious. Roads very busy. Lots of others out, having a good and normal looking time.
Dont waste what we do have.

@Waxonwaxoff0
The NHS needs better funding. To be honest I'm fed up of having to "protect the NHS" when the government is doing fuck all to help them

Yep. Are people going to put up with "protect the NHS" yet again, when the government is not telling "us" how it itself is doing something?
Easy to get the idea that they want that "excuse" to put blame on us,and not themselves.
They should be making announcements of what they are genuinely doing, to "protect the NHS". Covid is not going anywhere we are being told.
So government, deal with it.

@Covetthee

I really do not understand why people arent angry about this!?

All those saying we need to slow down and allow restrictions and the government follow the advice blah blah

The had a fucking chance to stop/decrease the detla variant bu banning the bloody flights coming in from india like most countries did, but no, they allowed 4/5 flights a day to still come in, and I bet none of them quarantined and now look, WE have to pay the price of this extended lockdown because of this.

if people want to restrictions then they can restrict themselves but doon’t expect other people who put their lives on hold for nearly 2 years to comply.

So many still, just suck up what the government chooses to tell them. They only watch BBC, ITV and Sky News and the occasional newspaper.

@Covetthee

I really do not understand why people arent angry about this!?

All those saying we need to slow down and allow restrictions and the government follow the advice blah blah

The had a fucking chance to stop/decrease the detla variant bu banning the bloody flights coming in from india like most countries did, but no, they allowed 4/5 flights a day to still come in, and I bet none of them quarantined and now look, WE have to pay the price of this extended lockdown because of this.

if people want to restrictions then they can restrict themselves but doon’t expect other people who put their lives on hold for nearly 2 years to comply.

The Indian variant also got into countries with stricter border controls.

We banned China flights back at the start, but covid came in via Italy ski holidays.

The only way to minimise spread is closed borders, not selectively banning some flights and allowing others.

@Covetthee

I really do not understand why people arent angry about this!?

All those saying we need to slow down and allow restrictions and the government follow the advice blah blah

The had a fucking chance to stop/decrease the detla variant bu banning the bloody flights coming in from india like most countries did, but no, they allowed 4/5 flights a day to still come in, and I bet none of them quarantined and now look, WE have to pay the price of this extended lockdown because of this.

if people want to restrictions then they can restrict themselves but doon’t expect other people who put their lives on hold for nearly 2 years to comply.

2 years

Just sums up how unconnected with reality you are

You can be angry with the government but still want to do right by the people around you.
Boris and co have been utterly incompetent. Pretty much criminally negligent at times. That doesn’t mean I want to put myself or my family at risk.

It’s four weeks.

In what way exactly am I unconnected?

I know people whose have put their lives on hold for things which will be 2 years, my friend has been told she can’t have ivf till next year so yes that will be 2 years

My cousin wants to get married and yes to shock of mumsnet people she wants more than 30 people to celebrate with, went from cancelling last year to booking for this year which they have cancelled again till next year now because its not looking like things will lift anytime soon so yes 2 years for them as well.

how many people have put off holidays last year and this year? so yes it will be 2 years before people can get some resemblance of a life

@PurpleDaisies how many times have we heard that now? October last year- ‘it will only be a few weeks so we can have xmas’

December- ‘it will only be a few weeks so people can actually have easter this year’

So please forgive me (other people) if we don’t believe that rubbish anymore

I know people whose have put their lives on hold for things which will be 2 years, my friend has been told she can’t have ivf till next year so yes that will be 2 years

IVF has been going ahead. Three friends have had babies this way with the entire process taking place through the pandemic.

There are huge delays in the NHS. That would only be worse with more covid cases in hospitals.

Weddings of more than are now allowed subject to venue size.

Overseas holidays aren’t usually the make or break for whether someone thinks they have a life or not.

@PurpleDaisies

I’m aware people have been having ivf, but my friend has been told she will next year on nhs, unless she wants to go private which she can’t afford.

Like i said my cousin wants a big wedding and yes that might be selfish in the eyes of MN but people are allowed to want that.

Holidays might not be for you but for some it can be, and not just holidays, what about people wanting to see their families?

Im angry for other people, the current restrictions don’t bother me but I see how others around me have suffered and will continue to suffer for a bit longer

Waxon waxoff- agreed, nhs needs more funding, but until that is put in and results are seen, a pause in restriction lifting seems eminently sensible. Otherwise we will get in a worse hole, which will be harder and more expensive to get out of. That goes for nhs and economy.

I’m aware people have been having ivf, but my friend has been told she will next year on nhs, unless she wants to go private which she can’t afford.

None of my friends went private. Unfortunately in some areas there is a wait for IVF, pandemic or not. I do genuinely feel for your friend. It’s a tough position to be in.

If restrictions save a single life they are worth it

I presume you support banning all cars from the road then? Think of all those RTA deaths we’d prevent.

Some IVF has been going on, not all. Two friends had theirs cancelled. One of them, well, she's now in full ovarian failure.

@MercyBooth

Well ppl seemed very happy with thousands of people dying due to their disability benefits being cut. They also wernt bothered about the fact that flu or a simple cold could actually kill people like my DH (COPD) BUT neither DH nor i would expect the world to stop for it. Or for ppl to wear face masks. All we would ever ask is that ppl dont visit us if they have a cold. Im fucking sick of being treated like a bio hazard when no one gave a fuck worth a damn before.

DH and i both object to people like himself being used to emotionally blackmail others when no one gave a shit before.

And that default setting will be back after this is over IF it ever is.

Totally right!

@SoSadAboutMyDad

‘’Practically every single SAGE model hasnt been no where near accurate.’’

So you’re agreeing with us then? By using a double negative you are saying that every single SAGE model has been accurate . This just highlights the intelligence displayed on this thread by the OP.

The OP has a demanding 3 year old jumping around while shes trying to type!

You think you can do better, start your own thread..

@Flaxmeadow

You mean the experts who have continually been proven wrong?

Practically every single SAGE model hasnt been no where near accurate

They haven't been proved wrong and the SAGE models have been very accurate

This is a joke surely?

Feb models (used by govt to plan roadmap) had between 54,000 and 60,000 deaths from 8-Mar for the chosen unlock option.
Since 8-Mar there have actually been 2,297 deaths.
The new model has about 14,500 from June to end of October. I wonder how wrong they will be this time!

It's in the news withinin the last couple of days, real world data of the effectiveness of the vaccines against the Indian Variant.

The Pfizer vaccine was found to be 88% effective at stopping symptomatic disease from the Indian variant two weeks after the second dose, compared with 93% effectiveness against the Kent variant.
The AstraZeneca jab was 60% effective against the Indian variant, compared with 66% against the Kent variant.

The flu vaccine which is used every year is 46%. The vaccines offer high protection.

Now that they know this variant is not vaccine resistant and people won't be scared the media will have to conjure up something else.

We will have to wait until the next variant, perhaps
the Dutch/french/Manchester strain to come out where they can tell us all it's the worst variant yet and how we are all doomed and put our restrictions back.

Jesus Mary and Joseph and the wee donkey.

@MrsHastingslikethebattle why do you think the government or media would want to do this, if you think the threat isn't "real"?

www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/jun/16/super-rich-family-dynastic-wealth-pandemic

@MrsHastingslikethebattle

Thought this might interest you.