Can we really just stop life to preserve every life?

[MrsHastingslikethebattle]

Everyone whom I know is more scared of the Governments reaction to Covid, than Covid itself.

The vaccinations are the most protection we are ever going to get, and yes people will still die.

Why can't we just accept that people die of Covid like we accept thousands each year who have died through flu and other preventable diseases?Millions and millions of people have died through smoking and alcohol, costing millions to the NHS. Yet we haven't banned them?
Viruses mutate and Covid is no different. They're will be variants indefinitely. Are we to cower behind our sofas every time a new one is announced?
The media in full force say how serious the new strain is, then lo and behold, weeks later it shows the vaccines are still offering high protection.
Public Health have started there is no correlation between the Indian variant and hospital admissions.
There is also a report that over 80% of Covid infections were caught in hospital, yet hospitality is are still targeted with table service, masks and track and trace.

When did this become about cases? not deaths and hospital admissions like it was to begin with?

The media and government have done well to completely scare people into submission. This is no longer about protection, its control and power.

Mumsnet is the only place is seems where people want these restrictions to carry on.

Everyone in real life has had enough and can see through this bullshit for what it really is!

#Imdone

Thanks Marsha.

Re WFH. Interesting to note Parliament is still semi WFH/remote sessions.

It seems our MPs don't want to themselves 'live with it'.

@Flaxmeadow

You've obviously never read Jane Austen if you think all they did was have tea at home with a select few people. Ever heard of an Assembly Room? It's the Georgian equivalent of a nightclub. The name might have changed but to suggest that people gathering together in large numbers to dance and socialise is a recent thing is laughable.

Jane Austens world was hardly typical of life for the vast majority of people at the time. Most people either lived in tiny rural cottages, barns or rooms or in overcrowded industrial slum housing and diseases of overcrowding were rife. All kinds of lice and bugs, including human fleas, rats, dysentery, typhus, smallpox, measles. My grandmother's sister died of TB in her early 20s.

Exactly. The world has coped with much worse than covid beforehand got on with living. What makes this generation so precious we can't cope and cower away in fear.

What post was deleted?

I can't keep up. Thread moves fast, and it's been distracting me from RL. I'll have to take a break. I'm sure that will please some of you

What can't we do??

People can't attend big live concerts, sporting matches, festivals, conventions, Park Run off the top of my head.

Not to mention that some of the things that are open are still curtailed and difficult. I went for lunch with my husband a couple of weeks ago. We weren't able to wander along to a bar afterwards because of pre booking. My gym timetable is really limited and it is hard to get a slot in classes.

The spontanaeity isn't there.

And you will, i'm sure, roll your eyes at all of the above, but its been a very long time without all these things, none of which are wrong or immoral, and i for one am concerned that "we just need to wait a little longer until....." will go on for a long time. There will always be something.

Nope it isnt really that interesting to note - it is a mitigation that is fairly easy to do without longer term impact. The next things that need to be released will be the sectors that need it

Hybrid working is for offices is something that is here for the medium to longer term. For MPs for example it means be able to be available for their constitiuents and vote in Parliament. Remote sessions should become the norm outside of COVID anyway

What makes this generation so precious we can't cope and cower away in fear.

Exactly. People need to stop cowering in fear from cigarette smoke. It blows away fast. Let people enjoy smoking if they wish. Freedom for smokers! (Their tax comes in very handy too).

bookworm14

But couldn't choral society's have outdoor events? Wasn't this how many Victorian CS events were held in the first place? I know that ome were held up on the moors, with people taking picnics. Early trade union meetings too. The Methodists were bonkers about this kind of outdoor gathering.

The Roman's and Greeks held outdoor theatre and sporting events. We even had these Roman theatres in England. Maybe they understood the importance distancing and ventilation more than we do!

Nope it isnt really that interesting to note - it is a mitigation that is fairly easy to do without longer term impact.

Ah I see. The jobs of those working in hospitality matter... except the many reliant on a fully functional HoC and HoL. Not just the in-house pubs and canteens. There's the huge number of businesses from cobblers to dry cleaners to cab drivers to the surrounding pubs, bars, and restaurants. All dependant on a full Parliament.

@Flaxmeadow

bookworm14

But couldn't choral society's have outdoor events? Wasn't this how many Victorian CS events were held in the first place? I know that ome were held up on the moors, with people taking picnics. Early trade union meetings too. The Methodists were bonkers about this kind of outdoor gathering.

The Roman's and Greeks held outdoor theatre and sporting events. We even had these Roman theatres in England. Maybe they understood the importance distancing and ventilation more than we do!

This

I know you think your smoking analogy is very clever but it doesn't work i'm afraid.

It might work in the context of mask wearing in public places but that's about it.

@Flaxmeadow

bookworm14

But couldn't choral society's have outdoor events? Wasn't this how many Victorian CS events were held in the first place? I know that ome were held up on the moors, with people taking picnics. Early trade union meetings too. The Methodists were bonkers about this kind of outdoor gathering.

The Roman's and Greeks held outdoor theatre and sporting events. We even had these Roman theatres in England. Maybe they understood the importance distancing and ventilation more than we do!

I wonder how many disabled people attended those events. Especially on a wet Wednesday in February.

What makes this generation so precious we can't cope and cower away in fear.

People aren’t (generally) cowering. They’re following public health advice to try abs avoid catching a disease they’ll soon have the offer of being fully vaccinated against. That’s certainly what I’m seeing amongst my friends, family and colleagues. People being sensible.

People are alarmed that we were led to understand that lockdown followed by vaccination was our way out of but now it feels a little like some will never be certain enough.

It hasn't changed. We're just simply not there yet. We need the majority fully vaccinated (possibly boosters for the vulnerable).

What about the next variant, or the variant after that?

That's where pandemic border control comes in. We need to stop letting in any and all new strains. It's also necessary temporarily, until majority fully vaccinated, to have in place containment measures, so the virus doesn't keep spreading (which increases the risk of new mutations including potentially vaccine resistant ones).

We need the majority of the population fully vaccinated, and then the rest of the world (hopefully Biden's push for temporary vaccine patent waiver will succeed, as that would help speed things up). Then there's only very limited opportunity for the virus to spread or mutate.

@MrsTophamHat

I know you think your smoking analogy is very clever but it doesn't work i'm afraid.

It might work in the context of mask wearing in public places but that's about it.

Not clever. Just a fact.

Wrt your question about disabled people attending outdoors events. You do realise that, for those who aren't housebound (so can't attend outdoor or indoor events - except by Zoom), outside is often more accessible than inside venues for the disabled.

I wonder how many disabled people attended those events. Especially on a wet Wednesday in February.

Plenty did.

Look we can sit around complaining or we can find solutions and new healthier ways of living and interacting. I get that people miss nightclubs and other events, but we are in a public health crisis and covid is not going away anytime soon, if ever, so we might as well crack on with some solutions and innovation. Sadly covid is making progress on us, but we can make progress to against it
#imnotdoneyet

@Flaxmeadow

I wonder how many disabled people attended those events. Especially on a wet Wednesday in February.

Plenty did.

Look we can sit around complaining or we can find solutions and new healthier ways of living and interacting. I get that people miss nightclubs and other events, but we are in a public health crisis and covid is not going away anytime soon, if ever, so we might as well crack on with some solutions and innovation. Sadly covid is making progress on us, but we can make progress to against it
#imnotdoneyet

I don’t miss clubbing, it’s been a fair few years since I went to one. But I do want younger people to enjoy their lives and not have it curtailed.

US is ahead of us so we’ll see what they do. I think they’ll come back.

Singing in churches ditto

I’m also quite for outdoor festivals so will be happy when they’re back - they nearly were but just a month delay

Clubs are open in NYC and packed out seen a few tiktoks of people having fun. Everything is almost fully open.

@bookworm14

Mental isn't it?
I can go to my pub, get pissed, no SD, watch Footie, shout and scream as England win/lose and thats all ok.

But if i want to sing with a few SD singers, all vaccinated, in a nice big airy church, i cannot.

Parkruns are incredibly CV safe, outdoors, no booze unlike our local beach which resembled a jam packed medieval battlefield.

@Flaxmeadow

bookworm14

But couldn't choral society's have outdoor events? Wasn't this how many Victorian CS events were held in the first place? I know that ome were held up on the moors, with people taking picnics. Early trade union meetings too. The Methodists were bonkers about this kind of outdoor gathering.

The Roman's and Greeks held outdoor theatre and sporting events. We even had these Roman theatres in England. Maybe they understood the importance distancing and ventilation more than we do!

Amateur choir performances are capped at 30 people. Large choral societies usually have a couple of hundred members. Also many big choirs (including mine) fall between two stools as we are amateur choirs but perform with professional orchestras. The orchestras can’t currently use us as it would breach the guidelines so they go for professional choirs instead (which are inexplicably deemed to present a lower covid risk).

[quote jasjas1973]@bookworm14

Mental isn't it?
I can go to my pub, get pissed, no SD, watch Footie, shout and scream as England win/lose and thats all ok.

But if i want to sing with a few SD singers, all vaccinated, in a nice big airy church, i cannot.

Parkruns are incredibly CV safe, outdoors, no booze unlike our local beach which resembled a jam packed medieval battlefield.[/quote]
Yup. It’s mad.

@HairyFloppins

Clubs are open in NYC and packed out seen a few tiktoks of people having fun. Everything is almost fully open.

Yes and we're not NYC. Or America even.

The US has closed its borders to high risk countries like the UK.

We, on the order hand have mostly wide open borders to let in any and all new strains (btw closed borders doesn't mean no imports or exports. I actually received a parcel today from NYC).

New York state had strong restrictions including schools semi off (hybrid learning) for longer than the UK. It's also one of the US states with fairly high percentage fully vaccinated. Unlike the UK, America is vaccinating children too (over 12s).

53,000 vulnerable children in the UK mostly still unprotected.

The only thing NYC has in common with the UK (as well as a serious homelessness emergency) is killing vulnerable care home residents by knowingly sending Covid positive patients into the residential homes.

I find it crazy that you can hang around with 50 or so others in the likes of primark and tk maxx but you can't mix with more than 6 people yoi know in a pub, no music, no dancing. But you can brush sweaty arms with strangers everywhere else. Nuts

To be fair the US has it's borders closed to most countries. The EU are letting them in but it's not reciprocated. Lots are staying in Mexico for 14 days then entering.

@HairyFloppins

Clubs are open in NYC and packed out seen a few tiktoks of people having fun. Everything is almost fully open.

Brilliant. We’ll get there too. Clubs are not over even if a few really want this.