Can we really just stop life to preserve every life?

[MrsHastingslikethebattle]

Everyone whom I know is more scared of the Governments reaction to Covid, than Covid itself.

The vaccinations are the most protection we are ever going to get, and yes people will still die.

Why can't we just accept that people die of Covid like we accept thousands each year who have died through flu and other preventable diseases?Millions and millions of people have died through smoking and alcohol, costing millions to the NHS. Yet we haven't banned them?
Viruses mutate and Covid is no different. They're will be variants indefinitely. Are we to cower behind our sofas every time a new one is announced?
The media in full force say how serious the new strain is, then lo and behold, weeks later it shows the vaccines are still offering high protection.
Public Health have started there is no correlation between the Indian variant and hospital admissions.
There is also a report that over 80% of Covid infections were caught in hospital, yet hospitality is are still targeted with table service, masks and track and trace.

When did this become about cases? not deaths and hospital admissions like it was to begin with?

The media and government have done well to completely scare people into submission. This is no longer about protection, its control and power.

Mumsnet is the only place is seems where people want these restrictions to carry on.

Everyone in real life has had enough and can see through this bullshit for what it really is!

#Imdone

That was re Bookworm post

Oh do calm down @bookworm14

No one brought me my shopping. I also have a 'fucking clue' about a lot of stuff thanks.

'Luckily the human need for communal joy and celebration is so strong'

This is the only correct bit in your ott sermon. The human need for joy and celebration is strong and no one is stopping you celebrating anything. HTH.

There are lots of people out there right now desperate not to go back their offices, every time Covid cases rise it's a sure sign they can stay home longer. My friend has openly admitted she's told her work she doesn't feel safe going back but is currently enjoying all the shops and restaurants being open. She's told me the huge amounts of money she is saving every month from travel so there's a very real incentive for restrictions to continue because actually it doesn't affect her very much at all. It's those of us with hobbies and jobs that are impacted heavily by these restrictions and we get told by this friend to just suck it up, there's nothing we can do.

@bookworm14 I agree with everything you said

This is the only correct bit in your ott sermon. The human need for joy and celebration is strong and no one is stopping you celebrating anything. HTH.

Yes they are. It is currently illegal for my choir to meet and rehearse. Choral singing has been a part of my life since I was seven and my mental health has tanked since it was banned. I repeat: you don’t have a clue.

some like others not doing stuff

Yes, death or Long Covid disability would definitely stop people doing stuff. Permanently.

People make a lot of assumptions don't they. Funnily enough some of the most vocal voices calling for containment, i.e. not letting the bodies pile up, are working very much out of the home. NHS staff and the doctors of the BMA.

Ok, parents of CV and CEV children, some will be at home... caring for their disabled child.

Can't see any 'smugness'. I can see frustration that we're still in this mess - thanks in no small part to the refusal to accept we needed to contain Covid instead of wishing it away (and letting Other People's bodies pile up).

Had we done the right thing one year ago, it would be mostly over by now.

And why did we let the Delta strain in? Why are our borders still largely wide open with no real quarantine? If we hadn't imported the new strain, we could've had more domestic freedoms.

Meanwhile, I expect those on here who are so keen on freedoms and wanting to support the nightclub and pub industry, will fight for smoker freedoms (some people enjoy dancing, others like smoking). Both because of the right of freedom, and because the smoking ban hit pubs hard. The industry has been suffering ever since.

'Yes they are. It is currently illegal for my choir to meet and rehearse'

Oh I'm sorry you can't currently sing in your choir. Perhaps listening to music and singing along may help to be going on with?

So much hardship and devastation in the world but you're telling people they don't have a fucking clue. Riiiiight.

@bellamountain similarly I think there are many on these threads who are relieved when cases rise. They don't then have to change anything in their lives and can pretend that their anxiety is a rational response rather than a problem.

People did gather in large numbers but my point was your example is Jane Austen, who came from a privileged tiny middle class and so is not a good example of how people lived

I was replying to a poster who specifically mentioned Jane Austen ('a Jane Austen style soirée', I believe) as an example of what people should be currently be doing instead of going to nightclubs. Austen's idea of a good time was going to an Assembly Room or a large ball at someone's house. I was pointing out that nightclubs (or the idea behind nightclubs) is not a recent invention.

Are you being obtuse on purpose?

'similarly I think there are many on these threads who are relieved when cases rise. They don't then have to change anything in their lives'

I've been shopping (no queues) my dc are all out with their friends, I was out at the weekend. Fair enough I don't sing in a choir but if I did and I couldn't I would do something else. Bit of compromising and adapting needed, less of bookworm's catastrophising.

Yes, death or Long Covid disability would definitely stop people doing stuff. Permanently.

People are certainly alarmed that death and disability will always always be an unfortunate outcome for lots of people, regardless of the cause.

People are alarmed that we were led to understand that lockdown followed by vaccination was our way out of but now it feels a little like some will never be certain enough.

What about the next variant, or the variant after that?

People singing in choirs, dancing in nightclubs etc is joyous. Many feel that life is about finding joy and making the most of every day we are lucky enough to have, not to simply survive.

Highland spot on. Except my MIL never worked a day again over 28.

Whilst my 18 and 16 year olds have their exam years screwed, and whilst patiently waiting last in line for the vaccine have both caught Covid and are now into their fourth lot of self isolation, stuck home again during very long awaited summer hols.

[quote Faffinator]@bellamountain similarly I think there are many on these threads who are relieved when cases rise. They don't then have to change anything in their lives and can pretend that their anxiety is a rational response rather than a problem.[/quote]
Yep.

I felt that with the endless criticism of runners and cyclists and their deadly breathing everywhere. I think it was nice for those who never exercise to feel virtuous for a change, instead of recognising that those people are taking care of their bodies.

'Many feel that life is about finding joy and making the most of every day we are lucky enough to have, not to simply survive.'

It is about finding joy, thriving etc etc not bemoaning that we've had a few more weeks before all restrictions ended as they need to ensure hospitalisations remain low.

What can't we do?? (except sing in a choir and go to a nightclub)

It might be that we have to change the way we attend events, and change them irreversibly.

When we improved conditions in the past for the common good, we adapted and found new, healthier and better ways of living and interacting. Maybe nightclub style events will change, maybe even for the better. We need to think outside the box and accept this

When millions of people were affected by slums were pulled down, some people did not want it, and some of their reasons were valid, break up of terrace street communities for example, but running water, inside toilets that were not shared with other households, gardens and council housing improved general health immensely

Maybe nightclubs in the future will have more space and huge low noise ventilation systems or maybe become more of an outdoor or semi outdoor summer event

Instead of complaining about progress, maybe we should embrace it more

@Kanitawa

People have always loved dancing together, to claim it's only been possible for the past 40 years is patently ridiculous and insulting to previous generations! People can have a small dance in a pub or a Jane Austen style soirée at home. They just can’t go to a crowded nightclub, which is a fairly recent invention.

Sorry you are wrong. Even in Tudor times they had balls.

People singing in choirs, dancing in nightclubs etc is joyous. Many feel that life is about finding joy and making the most of every day we are lucky enough to have, not to simply survive.

People will always dance and sing, but we might have to find new ways of gathering together to do it

What’s happening in IS? Are choirs back and clubs - I don’t think the latter but soon after a quick google

There are lots of people out there right now desperate not to go back their offices

I think the government is on their side. Why else would they let this drag out, fail to contain, let the cases rise, borders wide open for any and all new strains.

Good for your friend maybe, but utterly shit for customers and clients. From a customer perspective I wish we were like Australia, New Zealand, and East Asia. Restricted international travel but life largely normal domestically - including offices (and schools).

Customer service has been shit since WFH.

Full-time WFH is a necessary temporary measure (thanks to the UK government repeatedly failing to contain) but long term it's a big no from me. It takes ages to get hold of the right person, communication has been poor, and I'm fed up of having to give private financial and other info over the phone, whilst hearing someone's family noises in the background.

It will be devastating long term. Significantly increase the inequality gap - reduced opportunities for those who can't afford a comfortable spacious working environment.

WFH is shit for young people just starting out, now stuck in their grotty houseshare or childhood bedroom.

Why didn't we close our borders except to genuinely essential travel (like import and export lorries), with real quarantine, so that people could sing in their choirs?

It's actually those who don't want to get beck to normal who want this to drag out. Failure to contain is why we're still in this position in the first place.

US

I see my previous post was deleted. I will just point out that there are people on this thread suggesting that gatherings over 30 people could be banned forever. I do not feel it is hysterical to point out that this is madness and would have a devastating impact on many people’s lives. I refused to be mocked or patronised for being sad that choral singing is banned - and anyone suggesting ‘singing along to music on the radio’ as an alternative clearly has no idea of the joy and power of communal singing. I feel very sorry for them.

The constant moving of the goalposts is what makes me think there's more going on. I don't mean, of course, Bill Gates injecting microchips into half the world's population, rather is this more about control? Is it financial?

It's been said that it's a combination of authoritarianism, making the leaders the sole source of "the truth", and in our government's particular case, wholesale privatisation of the NHS

@Flaxmeadow

Mass drinking and dancing in older times was more related to festivals, harvest festival for example, and these would usually be summer outdoor events or semi outdoors.

It isn't hard to understand why modern nightclubs and indoor concerts can be super spreaders of infection. Hundreds, or thousands, of people from different households crammed together in unventilated windowless rooms. Poor hygiene in toilets and in bar areas, bottles and glasses that haven't been wiped or cleaned properly. How many of us have been out nighclubbing and the next morning woken up with a sore throat.

Bath assembly rooms, Tudor Christmas pageants that went on for 12 days etc, etc. Society balls - ever heard of ball rooms in stately homes?

@bookworm14

I see my previous post was deleted. I will just point out that there are people on this thread suggesting that gatherings over 30 people could be banned forever. I do not feel it is hysterical to point out that this is madness and would have a devastating impact on many people’s lives. I refused to be mocked or patronised for being sad that choral singing is banned - and anyone suggesting ‘singing along to music on the radio’ as an alternative clearly has no idea of the joy and power of communal singing. I feel very sorry for them.

Don’t worry about it. There’ll always be someone who wants others to curtail things they don’t do. It’ll come back