Can we really just stop life to preserve every life?

[MrsHastingslikethebattle]

Everyone whom I know is more scared of the Governments reaction to Covid, than Covid itself.

The vaccinations are the most protection we are ever going to get, and yes people will still die.

Why can't we just accept that people die of Covid like we accept thousands each year who have died through flu and other preventable diseases?Millions and millions of people have died through smoking and alcohol, costing millions to the NHS. Yet we haven't banned them?
Viruses mutate and Covid is no different. They're will be variants indefinitely. Are we to cower behind our sofas every time a new one is announced?
The media in full force say how serious the new strain is, then lo and behold, weeks later it shows the vaccines are still offering high protection.
Public Health have started there is no correlation between the Indian variant and hospital admissions.
There is also a report that over 80% of Covid infections were caught in hospital, yet hospitality is are still targeted with table service, masks and track and trace.

When did this become about cases? not deaths and hospital admissions like it was to begin with?

The media and government have done well to completely scare people into submission. This is no longer about protection, its control and power.

Mumsnet is the only place is seems where people want these restrictions to carry on.

Everyone in real life has had enough and can see through this bullshit for what it really is!

#Imdone

@hamstersarse

The under 18s who received shielding letters haven't been vaccinated yet. Maybe they're just expected to stay at home while the rest of the country gets back to normal.

The idea/ fantasy that we can all live exactly the same lives as the next person under the guise of equality is partly how we have got in this mess.

My risk is very low, always has been. Yet I’ve been coerced into thinking that I am somehow at risk. I’m not. I don’t care. I’ve had it, got a bit ill for a day or 2, not the worst thing I’ve ever had by any stretch.

There are other people less fortunate (?) who do need to be more vigilant, fine. It’s the same with so many millions of things in the world. Some people have very poor eyesight so can’t drive, some people can’t sit in the sun without their skin combusting, some people can’t eat certain foods without anaphylactic shock, some people have a gene that causes breast cancer.

The idea that we are all at the same risk is ludicrous. It is perfectly possible to shield if you are truly still concerned (although if you have been vaccinated I’d be questioning your mental health). That’s why so many people are ‘done’, they are usually people who have no fear because they have no risk, and those who do aggressively enforcing some fake risk on them for a prolonged period of time is just selfish.

You do you. I’ll do me.

This is very honourable post arse but your inability to read mine properly and understand the point I was making, thereby turning it into a noble "I don't care if I'm at risk" soliloquy and questioning someone's mental health (really? who the fuck are you? ) is tiresome in the extreme.

Absolutely!

I am so sick of this. The government and their scientists have managed to terrify enough of the population that they actually agree with Boris now - despite his failings throughout.

My darling FIL in his advanced years asked why we bothered getting vaccinated at all if our lives cannot resume!

It’s younger people I feel for. It sucks and although I’m older, I will do everything I can to ensure younger people have the same opportunities I did.

That’s my exact point: They won’t. Times change and kids don’t have the same lives as their parents. My Gran was young during WW2 and didn’t have the same carefree youth as her parents in the 1920s. I didn’t have the same wealth of jobs and free education and cheap housing as my Boomer parents did. Gen Z has things we didn’t have, and they equally don’t have some things because of Covid.

Thinking about it, Gen X and Y are the only ones who went nightclubbing. Prior generations didn’t. So because society does something for 30-40 years it has to be available forever? Even if it no longer suits the modern world? That’s frankly ridiculous and doesn’t take account of how the world evolves and progresses. Maybe the era of some things is over - like crowded nightclubs and cheap travel - and we are living through a fundamental revolution in how we live and work.

The under 18s who received shielding letters haven't been vaccinated yet. Maybe they're just expected to stay at home while the rest of the country gets back to normal.

Yep. Their freedom and mental health apparently doesn't matter. Neither does it matter for their older fellow vulnerable (who might be less protected by vaccines than other people). Oh but their tax matters. Definitely the CV and CEV should get tax rebates.

Re CV and CEV children (we have around 53,000 in the UK). Other countries have started to vaccinate over 12s. I get that our supplies are limited but we really should be prioritising vulnerable children, even if we don't yet have enough for all children.

Erm, they had dancing before WW2.

They had music halls for one thing, in Victorian times.

Jazz clubs in the 1920s.

Ever read Jane Austen? The characters couldn't wait to organise a dance.

People have always loved dancing together, to claim it's only been possible for the past 40 years is patently ridiculous and insulting to previous generations!

Keeping nightclubs closed just drives it underground and into the hands of organised criminals.

It’s younger people I feel for

Yes particularly the CV and CEV children. Still waiting for their vaccines, still vulnerable, some still unofficially shielding (on the advice of their consultants).

CV and CEV adults too. I feel desperately for them.

@Tealightsandd

Oh how wonderful is the UK way. Spending a year and a half screaming and tantruming about any and all containment measures (so causing it to drag out longer) and othering the vulnerable (including the millions of working age). Ignoring the risks of long term disability from Long Covid including organ damage and diabetes. Gambling with a new disease (possibly genetically modified and escaped from a lab) with long term consequences for many.

So here we are still in this mess, 150,000 dead and counting, lots long term ill, economy damaged. As an extra treat, the government decided to import the new Delta strain.

Meanwhile other countries closed their borders with essential travel only (i.e. imports and exports), had real quarantine, and took the proactive preventative measures needed to contain a contagious disease. As a result they have few deaths, healthier economies, limited risk of Long Covid disability, and life largely as normal.

Oh the difference between the countries with morals, common sense, and foresight. Versus those plagued with selfishness, idiocy, and incompetence.

Agree totally

@Blue4YOU

Saving one life is worth it 🤣🤣. Tell that to the NHS and local councils - currently failing cancer patients and other patients with serious illnesses and many vulnerable people. My seriously disabled DD can’t get her local council to look over approved building plans to determine from its lofty position as holder of public funds IN A PANDEMIC to deign to look at said plans and either approve or not the funding she deserves. If I had to wear a mask - or 100 masks at a time - to make someone like my little girl’s life better I would but this absolute horseshit, spouted by the biggest liar in a public domain, that keeps us from hugging or whatever else it is we want to do (within reason) is just pathetic. I’m sure there was a fighting spirit in this part of the world but it’s gone. What did people do with the plague? Delay opening nightclubs but leave airports wide open???

Yep

who doesnt feel for them. They have been failed badly by a lack of test track and trace, rubbish isolating and lack of borders closure and various others things that the Government should and still could do.

It doesnt have to be like this for them either. But the solution isnt further lockdowns, it isnt permanently changing the way that we live and never having nightclubs again.

The delta variant means the move was correct we need to vaccinate more
Once that is done we need to loosen up restrictions so that things can come back with mitigations that we can live with

The narrative is starting to shift though. There was, I feel, an overall acceptance to this extra four weeks, on the basis that it's looking like people aren't becoming really sick and dying to anywhere near the extent that they were, and that the extra 4 weeks will strengthen this position.

I personally would like to see a proper reopening of international travel from the start of August, not only because I have a LOT of catching up to do, but also because that will be a big sign that they've accepted that our level of protection is adequate enough for normal life to resume.

@Losttheequipment

There’s very little that you can’t do within the current guidelines. I find it hard to believe that your life is being impacted that much.

Really? What a selfish shortsighted point of view. How about the thousands of people that work in the Travel Industry for example????

People have always loved dancing together, to claim it's only been possible for the past 40 years is patently ridiculous and insulting to previous generations!
People can have a small dance in a pub or a Jane Austen style soirée at home. They just can’t go to a crowded nightclub, which is a fairly recent invention.

I personally would like to see a proper reopening of international travel from the start of August
Honestly I think international travel needs to be massively reduced on a permanent basis, because that IS a fairly recent invention and it’s destroying the environment. We need to massively cut the number of flights and the current restrictions are a step towards that.

I can't believe someone is arguing that night clubs should be abolished forever 😂

What about gigs? Do they make the cut? Or would you ban those too? Oliver Cromwell would be proud! The new puritanism.

Whenever people say 'live with' they mean Other People die from.

They completely fail to grasp that they just might end up having to live with it...the long term disability of Long Covid.

But they're right. The UK is likely to end up as a long term high risk country (that other countries will have travel warnings about) with long term avoidable deaths, long term pressure on an already more than buckling NHS (because of ever growing numbers of Long Covid), and long term economic pain (due to periodic outbreaks).

So many also fail to understand that 'living with it' long term means also living with precautions including masks.

Other countries don't happily tell people that 100s of them will die daily. They try to protect against large numbers of their population developing long term disability and being unable to work.

Definitely three campaigns to work on under the circumstances.

1. Smokers rights. People need to learn to live with the reality of smokers around them, and smokers have the right to their freedom to smoke. They've earned it. Though their taxes.

1. The government has no justification to continue to deny people the freedom to choose a good death. Assisted suicide and euthanasia.

1. Those CV and CEV, who are less protected by the vaccines, who are being told to just 'live with it' aka just die from it, need tax rebates. Their lives don't matter? Then neither does their tax money.

@Kanitawa

I personally would like to see a proper reopening of international travel from the start of August Honestly I think international travel needs to be massively reduced on a permanent basis, because that IS a fairly recent invention and it’s destroying the environment. We need to massively cut the number of flights and the current restrictions are a step towards that.

Well either that, or people can stop saying they care about climate change. Definitely don't expect the public to pay higher gas and electricity bills, if others are flying around the world all the time.

If people were genuinely serious about tackling climate change, we'd have rationing. One flight a year. With exceptions for essential and emergency travel. And flexibility to sell - so someone who doesn't need their annual ration free to sell to somebody else who wants two.

If people don't want to do that, they need to be honest that we won't be dealing with climate change. Either we do something meaningful or we don't. But let's have some honesty about it.

I can't believe someone is arguing that night clubs should be abolished forever
It’s not about nightclubs specifically. Anything that represents a health risk to the majority of society needs banning. Like smoking indoors was banned. If we’re now living in a world where large densely occupied spaces are a disease control risk then we keep them closed until they’re no longer a risk. If that’s a year, two years, forever... however long it takes to keep the majority safe.

@Kanitawa

It’s younger people I feel for. It sucks and although I’m older, I will do everything I can to ensure younger people have the same opportunities I did.

That’s my exact point: They won’t. Times change and kids don’t have the same lives as their parents. My Gran was young during WW2 and didn’t have the same carefree youth as her parents in the 1920s. I didn’t have the same wealth of jobs and free education and cheap housing as my Boomer parents did. Gen Z has things we didn’t have, and they equally don’t have some things because of Covid.

Thinking about it, Gen X and Y are the only ones who went nightclubbing. Prior generations didn’t. So because society does something for 30-40 years it has to be available forever? Even if it no longer suits the modern world? That’s frankly ridiculous and doesn’t take account of how the world evolves and progresses. Maybe the era of some things is over - like crowded nightclubs and cheap travel - and we are living through a fundamental revolution in how we live and work.

My dad grew up in the 20s in extreme poverty, often not having enough to eat. Hardly carefree. His family were much better off during the war because wages were better and dad grew 4 inches in height when he joined the army and got more food. Not saying the war was good but every change will be good for some and bad for others. I know someone who has made many millions out of Covid, it has made their business grow massively and they have been able to use that to branch out into other unrelated areas and set up a completely different business for their kids. But equally I know people who are on the bones of their arse because they hadn't been self employed long enough to qualify for the grant.

@ILookAtTheFloor

I can't believe someone is arguing that night clubs should be abolished forever 😂

What about gigs? Do they make the cut? Or would you ban those too? Oliver Cromwell would be proud! The new puritanism.

Yep ridiculous

People can have a small dance in a pub or a Jane Austen style soirée at home. They just can’t go to a crowded nightclub, which is a fairly recent invention

You've obviously never read Jane Austen if you think all they did was have tea at home with a select few people. Ever heard of an Assembly Room? It's the Georgian equivalent of a nightclub. The name might have changed but to suggest that people gathering together in large numbers to dance and socialise is a recent thing is laughable.

@Tealightsandd

Whenever people say 'live with' they mean Other People die from.

They completely fail to grasp that they just might end up having to live with it...the long term disability of Long Covid.

But they're right. The UK is likely to end up as a long term high risk country (that other countries will have travel warnings about) with long term avoidable deaths, long term pressure on an already more than buckling NHS (because of ever growing numbers of Long Covid), and long term economic pain (due to periodic outbreaks).

So many also fail to understand that 'living with it' long term means also living with precautions including masks.

Other countries don't happily tell people that 100s of them will die daily. They try to protect against large numbers of their population developing long term disability and being unable to work.

Definitely three campaigns to work on under the circumstances.

1. Smokers rights. People need to learn to live with the reality of smokers around them, and smokers have the right to their freedom to smoke. They've earned it. Though their taxes.

1. The government has no justification to continue to deny people the freedom to choose a good death. Assisted suicide and euthanasia.

1. Those CV and CEV, who are less protected by the vaccines, who are being told to just 'live with it' aka just die from it, need tax rebates. Their lives don't matter? Then neither does their tax money.

You’re right about other countries. I expect we’d be on the Red list for Australia, NZ and most of Asia if we’re just living with it. There’s no chance in hell they would allow travel to or from here. Those countries do not want to accept cases never mind deaths, here we are saying it’s fine we’re done with lockdown so we’ll just let the weak and old die off if the vax can’t help them. Madness.

'The rules are intensely illogical. I can only spread it if I bloody have it.Asymptomatic spread has been the biggest lie of all time. I presume you have seen the actual data on this 'asymptomatic spread' nonsense?'

Yes but many people did have it, thousands in fact . I think we all know many did not get tested let alone isolate.

Interesting about asymptomatic spread being the biggest lie, that would debunk the thousands of asymptomatic but allegedly infected patients discharged to care homes' 'scandal' wouldn't it.

@Kanitawa

I can't believe someone is arguing that night clubs should be abolished forever It’s not about nightclubs specifically. Anything that represents a health risk to the majority of society needs banning. Like smoking indoors was banned. If we’re now living in a world where large densely occupied spaces are a disease control risk then we keep them closed until they’re no longer a risk. If that’s a year, two years, forever... however long it takes to keep the majority safe.

On that logic we would ban many other things, not least travel by car.

The priority though is the ROW until thats done, Covid could very easily mutate & put us back to March 2020.

Its blindingly obvious yet here we again arguing to remove restrictions, its a side issue to the main priority.

@Kanitawa

And I'd say "gnashing teeth" is a very reasonable position for someone who has had zero trade through their club, theatre or soft play in Scotland since March 2020 The world has changed. Maybe it’s not a place where packed nightclubs can exist any more. And that’s ok, there’s other stuff to do and the majority of people didn’t go to clubs anyway. People who ran clubs will have to do something else, the same as blacksmiths did when the car was invented and there were no more horses to shoe. The world changes and you have to keep up.

WOW.... Are you for real?

@kurtney

People can have a small dance in a pub or a Jane Austen style soirée at home. They just can’t go to a crowded nightclub, which is a fairly recent invention

You've obviously never read Jane Austen if you think all they did was have tea at home with a select few people. Ever heard of an Assembly Room? It's the Georgian equivalent of a nightclub. The name might have changed but to suggest that people gathering together in large numbers to dance and socialise is a recent thing is laughable.

Exactly 👏👏