Can we really just stop life to preserve every life?

[MrsHastingslikethebattle]

Everyone whom I know is more scared of the Governments reaction to Covid, than Covid itself.

The vaccinations are the most protection we are ever going to get, and yes people will still die.

Why can't we just accept that people die of Covid like we accept thousands each year who have died through flu and other preventable diseases?Millions and millions of people have died through smoking and alcohol, costing millions to the NHS. Yet we haven't banned them?
Viruses mutate and Covid is no different. They're will be variants indefinitely. Are we to cower behind our sofas every time a new one is announced?
The media in full force say how serious the new strain is, then lo and behold, weeks later it shows the vaccines are still offering high protection.
Public Health have started there is no correlation between the Indian variant and hospital admissions.
There is also a report that over 80% of Covid infections were caught in hospital, yet hospitality is are still targeted with table service, masks and track and trace.

When did this become about cases? not deaths and hospital admissions like it was to begin with?

The media and government have done well to completely scare people into submission. This is no longer about protection, its control and power.

Mumsnet is the only place is seems where people want these restrictions to carry on.

Everyone in real life has had enough and can see through this bullshit for what it really is!

#Imdone

kani were you never young?

It’s younger people I feel for. Just the care free days of dancing or meeting in groups or whatever it is you are into. It matters hugely that we have to live this way forever now. It sucks and although I’m older, I will do everything I can to ensure younger people have the same opportunities I did.

'Face masks , lining up for ages to get into a shop no dancing at events and not being allowed more than six inside your home is not normal'

Not 'normal' but not the end of the world. Also where are you that people are queuing to get into shops?

Many refuse to wear face covers anyway, i think youngsters can all manage not to dance indoors until July and as I've said, meet outdoors! Who wants to be crammed indoors anyway when it's 20c.

You can't book a face to face meeting with an Age UK adviser. You can't even pop in to a local office for a chat about an issue.
A lot of social support for the elderly snd disabled is either not happening or severely restricted (I'm a trustee for a charity that provides a specialist therapy).
Getting a GP appointment, even for a frail old man with complex issues that ended up in hospital 5 times in 2 months due to misdiagnosis over the phone, isn't normal. Ended up in hospital again last week, same reason.
So yeah, it really is all about getting passed at parties.

'Getting a GP appointment, even for a frail old man with complex issues that ended up in hospital 5 times in 2 months due to misdiagnosis over the phone, isn't normal. '

GPs use phone and econsults to triage, I can't see this changing tbh. They are seeing people face to face who need it. You need to complain to your practice if yours is being negligent then the primary network if you don't get a satisfactory response.

We can not live with Covid with our current health infrastructure. Everyone understands that don’t they?

If we simply let it spread freely without any mitigation other than vaccines we risk:

Further mutations

people suffering long covid

deaths from those who can not be vaccinated

deaths from those whom the vaccine doesn’t work for

NHS workers working flat out

isolation periods if you get it

Children being ill from it more often

Depleated NHS staffing levels as you can guarantee you won’t be allowed to work if you’re showing symptoms so longer waiting times for appointments and treatments

Vulnerable vaccinated people being afraid to leave home ‘just in case’

If we simply let it spread freely without any mitigation other than vaccines

What mitigations are you talking about?

@MarshaBradyo

If we simply let it spread freely without any mitigation other than vaccines

What mitigations are you talking about?

The ones we put in place during the waves to help bring the numbers down.

Some of the comments on here including tough if you lose your business ... Mumsnet is wierd I am off

The ones we put in place during the waves to help bring the numbers down

Which are you suggesting we retain? There’s a wide spectrum

@MarshaBradyo

The ones we put in place during the waves to help bring the numbers down

Which are you suggesting we retain? There’s a wide spectrum

The ones which hopefully we’ll realise actually worked.

Ok sounds specific - you do that.

@Thewiseoneincognito yes we all know that those are the risks of Covid. But none of that even remotely seems to understand the risks of continuing with mitigations either. Moving it to July 19th was the right thing to do but beyond that the consequences of the mitigations have to be balanced against that. So yes exactly what do you suggest with retain. Masks I do agree for the most part is something that can be there as an acceptable things that people use based on their own risks,

@DancesWithTortoises that is exactly the problem it isnt about valuing the health or the NHS more it is about understanding that it is a balancing of risks. We all on here value the health and the NHS but it isnt quite so simple.

Matt Hancock said something very apt (for once) yesterday in his statement about personal responsibility and restrictions - from a public health perspective we are not yet at a stage where we can entirely rely on personal responsibility when we are in the middle of a pandemic where your actions can cause someone else to get seriously ill or die.

And that's exactly why it was the right thing to do to extend restrictions just a bit longer to allow more people to get fully vaccinated. It's not as easy as just saying "stay at home if you're scared of covid". People need to go out to work, to attend appointments, send their kids to school, go shopping, use public transport.

@JaniieJones

'Getting a GP appointment, even for a frail old man with complex issues that ended up in hospital 5 times in 2 months due to misdiagnosis over the phone, isn't normal. '

GPs use phone and econsults to triage, I can't see this changing tbh. They are seeing people face to face who need it. You need to complain to your practice if yours is being negligent then the primary network if you don't get a satisfactory response.

Not my gp, multiple complaints made including by hospital consultants. No point in triaging this way if you can't do it effectively. And they are clearly NOT seeing all patients who need it face to face if a hospital consultants has seen fit to write 3 letters pointing out the issue and a man has nearly died because they thought they were treating osteoarthritis instead of an infection. And this isn't the only example. My mum had an utterly useless memory test via phone, it was only because my brother and I raised a stink that she had a proper one and ended up being referred for her alzheimer's diagnosis. I could give you a dozen examples from people I know, various practices. All elderly and badly let down from not being referred for red flag possible cancer symptoms to untreated infections and balance clinics with a deaf elderly man carried out by phone. It's not good enough to be considered anywhere near normal.

@nordica

Matt Hancock said something very apt (for once) yesterday in his statement about personal responsibility and restrictions - from a public health perspective we are not yet at a stage where we can entirely rely on personal responsibility when we are in the middle of a pandemic where your actions can cause someone else to get seriously ill or die.

And that's exactly why it was the right thing to do to extend restrictions just a bit longer to allow more people to get fully vaccinated. It's not as easy as just saying "stay at home if you're scared of covid". People need to go out to work, to attend appointments, send their kids to school, go shopping, use public transport.

Exactly this. An acceptable level of risk is a great idea if you’re not at risk but if the deck is stacked against you it makes the world suddenly a very different place to navigate especially if you’re placing faith in strangers to be responsible.

Think about all the vulnerable and elderly who are double jabbed but can not be certain that’s going to actually help them. You’re talking about millions of people being told to accept their fate and play Russian roulette with something that could either be no worse than a cold (a cold for some people with ill health can still feel pretty bad) or it may make them seriously ill and potentially kill them, but you can’t be 100% certain so off you go. It’s chilling that we have reached this stage as a society that we deem that a level of risk worth taking.

If EVERYONE had followed the 'rules' from the beginning, then things might have been different. Too many selfish twats, flying around the world for no good reason, dodging quarantine/isolation by using different routes, thinking they're clever. So many not wearing masks, or thinking that having one round your neck is fine, the list is endless.

I wonder how you can prove this. It has been 18 months or whatever now and although I have followed most rules, I have broken some.

So seeing my bf when it was banned - no impact, no spread, no problems

Seeing my mum when it was banned - no impact, no spread, no problems

Seeing my work colleagues in an office without masks - no impact, no spread, no problems

Isolating for 7 days instead of 14 - you guessed it, no problems.

The rules are intensely illogical. I can only spread it if I bloody have it.

Asymptomatic spread has been the biggest lie of all time. I presume you have seen the actual data on this 'asymptomatic spread' nonsense?

I agree with you OP however I think it's ALWAYS been about power and control.

I agree with you OP however I think it's ALWAYS been about power and control

Nonsense, to what end? For what purpose? Orchestrated by who?

Look back to what was happening during Jan/Feb 2020. The government actively avoided implementing any sort of measures until they effectively had no choice. That’s not exactly the hallmark of a government whose main objective is “power and control”.

Power and control😂

Practically every country in the world has had to take some sort of restrictions.

It must be one big conspiracy!

If the (UK) government wants to just 'accept' hundreds of avoidable deaths a day), then they really cannot continue to deny people the right (the 'freedom') to choose assisted suicide or euthanasia. We are told it's not right to allow a good death - because 'life is precious'.

Covid is often a frightening, unpleasant, and lonely death. Assisted suicide is the opposite. Planned (so people have time to get their affairs in order and say their goodbyes), painless, and peaceful.

They definitely also need to stop persecuting smokers, who pay in more tax than they use (smoker tax helps fund the NHS, and smokers tend to need less pension and social care funding). Given their huge tax contribution, smokers (and those around them) certainly should be allowed to live with the risks of smoking.

100% agree, it's terrifying that this is still going on.

The government sure is keen to downplay Long Covid.

Focusing on deaths and hospitalisations.
And the pressures on the NHS... Which Long Covid will be. A long term pressure.

We're still only beginning to learn what long term damage is caused by this new disease - a disease that is potentially genetically modified and escaped from a lab.

We do know that it can cause organ damage, trigger diabetes, and leave people too unwell to work.

We also know that many sufferers are struggling to have their symptoms taken seriously by their doctors. Which conveniently keeps the official number of cases artificially low.

Yeah. Those countries aiming not for 100s of deaths a day plus unknown numbers of long term disabled. They're doing the sensible thing... Including restricting entry to high risk countries like the UK.

Now, when will the vulnerable - the people less protected by vaccines, and so more likely to be one of the 100s a day dying - get their tax rebates? They shouldn't have to pay full whack under the circumstances.

There are 45% of those polled who would vote for the party led by the serial killer Mr Johnson were there an election tomorrow. Either because they are deluded, or because they think the alternative would be worse.

A half decent Prime Minister would have closed the borders from India earlier and at all stages of the pandemic acted quicker. About six weeks less of the highest level of restrictions would have resulted.

@ArseInTheCoOpWindow this is what I don't get. Everyone complaining about Boris and how he is trying to control us. It's as if no other country has had any restrictions or a pandemic.

@newnortherner111

There are 45% of those polled who would vote for the party led by the serial killer Mr Johnson were there an election tomorrow. Either because they are deluded, or because they think the alternative would be worse.

A half decent Prime Minister would have closed the borders from India earlier and at all stages of the pandemic acted quicker. About six weeks less of the highest level of restrictions would have resulted.

Yes.

the alternative would be worse.
It's largely this. We desperately need an appealing opposition. (Always important whoever is in power and whatever the situation). Unfortunately we don't currently have one.